Initial 1000 HW2 cars getting AP software 12/31/16

[ucmndd]

It seems clear to me that the AP2 hardware was rushed to market. Partly because of the MobileEye fallout, but IMO the primary motivation was a shameless attempt to drive demand for Q4 purchases in an effort to hit their annual delivery target. Same thing with the base price increase on the 60, same thing with the end of "free supercharging".

By the same line of reasoning, I think the opacity around the timing, rollout, and feature parity of the EAP software release was also at least somewhat deliberate, as coming right out and emphasizing a slow, cautious rollout over the next year or so would have a negative effect on that demand and cause some people to sit on the fence and wait until everything was fully baked. Same with allowing people to enable the feature later without a financial penalty. In hindsight, those tactics seem to have served their purpose, but possibly at a price.

That said, I'm reasonably certain that if they had waited on the hardware until the software was more fully baked, the same people moaning now about the lack of functionality would be moaning about the delay in introducing the new hardware. I also have precious little sympathy for someone caught completely off guard about this as IMO there's no way you could have checked the "EAP" order box without an understanding that the software was coming later and it would be quite some time before the full functionality was released to the fleet.

From what I see, Tesla has fairly significantly underestimated the software development effort and it's going to be a long road ahead. At this moment in time, they can't even make the new hardware reliably sense when to turn my HEADLIGHTS on and off, yet people are clamoring for freeway speed auto steer? LOL, no thanks, I'll steer myself until the headlights work right!

 

[182RG]

If you're just interested in "punishing" Tesla for your perceived slight while not taking any responsibility for not researching more thoroughly your 100k purchase, then go ahead and do whatever it is you think you have to do.

Uh, timeout. As of 5 minutes ago, the wording in Design Studio leads you to believe that in December, 2016, you will have the functions listed. People read this, and believed that by then, they would have parity. Read it, in context, without color, and see what you would believe. Tesla has a problem being upfront with consumers. They just do.

 

[NeverEnough]

I'm reasonably certain that if they had waited on the hardware until the software was more fully baked

I think Tesla needed to deploy the hardware to bake the software. Welcome to a new age.

 

[TexasEV]

View attachment 208861

Uh, timeout. As of 5 minutes ago, the wording in Design Studio leads you to believe that in December, 2016, you will have the functions listed. People read this, and believed that by then, they would have parity. Read it, in context, without color, and see what you would believe. Tesla has a problem being upfront with consumers. They just do.

Expected, not promised or guaranteed, and subject to regulatory approval. When has Tesla ever completed anything within its expected timeframe? Have new buyers never heard of Tesla Time? Do they not do a minimum of research on such an expensive purchase?

 

[drklain]

Oktane - Tesla has never said the car can drive from coast to coast on its own by the end of 2017 or the self-Uber thing. What Elon said is that they anticipate demonstrating a FSD coast to coast drive by the end of 2017. To me that is not a promise all cars can do it by then.

Wrt the Uber, they have said they expect that will ultimately be possible with FSD software. They never said when.

You obviously feel strongly that Tesla has lied to you and that they have deceptive marketing and sales practices. You may not like their approach (and many don't including me) but what they are doing does not meet the legal definition of deceptive marketing. Their approach is very common for startups in the tech sector (or really most startups). I personally am not a fan of making big promises without clarity on how (or even if) they can be achieved, but that's not illegal or even deceptive marketing because all the order pages on the site and the order agreement have clear limitations spelled out -people just ignore them.

By way of comparison, deceptive (and illegal) marketing is rolling back the odometer on a car and saying it has x miles on it. In the US advertising can say pretty much anything and bury stuff in the fine print. It sucks, but that's the law.

We all love that a Tesla takes risks, pushes out frequent updates and is revolutionary. Many of the people who love all that hate the fact that Tesla also engages in tech/startup hyperbole, unrealistic timelines and sells things that are not fully tested or validated. I personally think it is a case of "you get one with the other"..

 

[ucmndd]

I think Tesla needed to deploy the hardware to bake the software. Welcome to a new age.

I agree with that as well, at least as far as the driver assistance and active safety features are concerned. The fleet learning is crucial.

The tell-tale signs of shamelessly rushing the stuff to market is all the little stuff that was just plain missing when the cars started to get delivered and is either still missing or unreliable. Stuff like auto headlights, auto high beams, rain sensing wipers, auto display dimming, etc. There's no excuse for straight-up basic features like that to be missing in a car shipped to a customer.

"Hey, I know, let's just replace that little locky button with a headlight button for now!"

Yep, that's some half-baked *sugar* right there.

 

[Ahisaac]

View attachment 208861

Uh, timeout. As of 5 minutes ago, the wording in Design Studio leads you to believe that in December, 2016, you will have the functions listed. People read this, and believed that by then, they would have parity. Read it, in context, without color, and see what you would believe. Tesla has a problem being upfront with consumers. They just do.

Read it then and read it just now....subject to regulatory approval.

 

[182RG]

When has Tesla ever completed anything within its expected timeframe? Have new buyers never heard of Tesla Time? Do they not do a minimum of research on such an expensive purchase?

Always amazed at the number of people who excuse this credibility deficit, especially.....on an expensive purchase. So, research blogs, forums, and articles to see what the manufacturer isn't being forthcoming about. Really? How about we hear it directly from them.

I was briefly tempted to pull the trigger on an S in the fall. I decided to stay on the sidelines and watch to see if Tesla matures into a company that treats its customers with respect.

 

[182RG]

Read it then and read it just now....subject to regulatory approval.

Are they waiting for regulatory approval, or is that a convienent out? Communication?

 

[spiderbro]

What's pretty clear is that some Tesla owners have been spoon-fed their entire lives.

Those complaining about paying for something not yet realized - consider it monthly tuition on a life lesson.

 

[HX_Guy]

Read it then and read it just now....subject to regulatory approval.

Yes, and apparently its not regulatory approval that is holding up. Is HW1 cars are driving around with AP functionality, you can't blame the delay with HW2 cars on regulatory approval. If that was the case, the all Tesla's should have all AP disabled.

 

[oktane]

Read it then and read it just now....subject to regulatory approval.

Regulatory approval has nothing to do with a lack of a functioning auto pilot. Do you see any rules that say auto pilot is against the law? This is purely a delay related to technical reasons at Tesla. What is unclear if it is a hardware or software limitation.

 

[HX_Guy]

Expected, not promised or guaranteed, and subject to regulatory approval. When has Tesla ever completed anything within its expected timeframe? Have new buyers never heard of Tesla Time? Do they not do a minimum of research on such an expensive purchase?

Truthfully, no - I had never heard of Tesla Time prior to reading this forum. And I don't see how the price is that relevant. I crossed shopped with a BMW M4 and my wife just purchased a $70k Mercedes E300, both cars within range of an S 60 with EAP and on both of those cars, what I saw as features on the website is what was expected and delivered ( at least for my wife's car, I obviously did not pull the tigger on the M4 - mostly due to EAP honestly).

 

[3Victoria]

I'd like the following information on early HW2 Tesla Vision ...

with a long list of wet dreams.

This request seems to be a fishing expedition ... are you really asking hypothetical questions?

Some here seem to have difficulties distinquishing between promises and a projected future capabilities. For example, EM said that they hoped to *demonstrate* a car self-driving across the country by year's end. That does not mean he is making any promise to deliver that capability to us in that time frame -- that will have to wait for validation and regulatory approval.

I had thought that Tesla had madr it pretty clear yhat the new AP2 hardware cars would not have AP1 functionality until Dec 2016 and it would be a gradual roll out. They appear to be slightly late at this point. Hardly a case to break into a sweat over.

 

[3Victoria]

Regulatory approval has nothing to do with a lack of a functioning auto pilot. Do you see any rules that say auto pilot is against the law? This is purely a delay related to technical reasons at Tesla. What is unclear if

Well, yes it does. The hardware and software has changed ... it needs to be (re-)validated. Also, the AP2 hardware needs to be present to implement the software, and to train it. There is necessarily a delay ... it is unavoidable. This was clear, and should have been communicated to new buyers. The ones upgraded from their ordered AP1 to AP2 because they did unexpectedly lose function (temporarily) -- but if it was I, I would have been glad to get much greater potential function, a worthy trade.

 

[HumanGenome]

Can we just get back to the movie Rampart?

 

[AmpedRealtor]

... At this moment in time, they can't even make the new hardware reliably sense when to turn my HEADLIGHTS on and off, yet people are clamoring for freeway speed auto steer? LOL, no thanks, I'll steer myself until the headlights work right!

Tesla can't even properly release a bug fix to the infotainment system without causing another obvious bug that anyone would have caught had they actually used the damn thing. Tesla has some major problems with its software development process to the point where their software is basically sh*t.

I've come to believe that everything Tesla does is driven solely by its quarterly numbers. It has nothing to do with safety or quality. The current state of Autopilot is a complete joke when it comes to safety. Any system that acts in such an unpredictable manner is, by definition, unsafe.

I think Tesla needed to deploy the hardware to bake the software. Welcome to a new age.

Why is it that Tesla is the only vehicle manufacturer who does it this way? Other car companies do this amazing thing that Tesla is apparently unfamiliar with... it's called TESTING. When you buy any other car, what you get already works and has been tested to work. When you buy a Tesla, you are paying to help the manufacturer figure things out on your dime and at your own risk.

Expected, not promised or guaranteed, and subject to regulatory approval. When has Tesla ever completed anything within its expected timeframe? Have new buyers never heard of Tesla Time? Do they not do a minimum of research on such an expensive purchase?

How is that going to fly with a half million pissed of Model 3 owners when they experience their own version of this? I suspect it won't go so smoothly for Tesla.

Are they waiting for regulatory approval, or is that a convienent out? Communication?

It's a clear out for Tesla. Clear as day to me. Ask P85D owners who never received their promised performance, later to be told to spend another $7,000 for a ludicrous upgrade. Ask P90DL owners who are experiencing a reduction in L performance after using it a certain number of times - a secret Tesla never disclosed to those customers at the time of purchase. Tesla is being deceptive in every sense of the word.

This isn't my fight, since I have a pre-AP P85, but I feel for those who can see through the fog.

 

[OnTheRun]

Nola_Mike: I have just reviewed part of my documents. The problem is that I believed I purchased a car with FUNCTIONAL (what we now call) AP1 software and AP2 software to be delivered in the future with no promised date. There was either a misrepresentation or a lack of representation of the actual facts that the car which was touted (on the news and more) to have better than AP1 hardware. My situation may be different than others. I did not follow the details on line. I test drove an AP1 car (with, I am sure, the intent to sell me a vehicle) in December of 2015. The upgraded hardware announcement in Oct 2016 plus the deadline for free charging at superchargers was the trigger for me to act. Your tone is insulting. I am not petty. I am not whining about a delayed software update. I didn't realize the problem until I got in the car to drive it home and the display was missing along with the functions I knew should be there. So please do not trivialize my problem. I paid for something I was promised and did not receive. I am verifying that I was 'promised' now. The agreement mandates arbitration, not litigation. That may or may not prevent a class action. And frankly, I don't know if there is one of 500 people like me. It is moronic to whine about a software delay if one purchased the vehicle KNOWING that the hardware was not functional. I was offered a discount for not having FULL AP2 use because they told me THAT would be delayed. That was OK. I was never told AP1 function was not included. I accept your apology.

I am pretty much in the same boat. My test drive experience was amazing as was my OA. The only problem was that neither I nor my wife were told that our new S75 would come without ANY AP functionality. My wife and I are doctors, we're not stupid and neither of us has any sense of entitlement. Just like John we discovered that one of the primary reasons we purchased the car - the AP functionality, was absent shortly after we picked it up. I have been a techie for more years than most of you have been alive and I while I love the car and appreciate Tesla's mission, I am disappointed and frustrated with the poor communication, lack of transparency and paying up front for functionality that seems months away, if not longer. I think Tesla needs to deal with this before it becomes a much bigger issue.

 

[Shorty]

Well, yes it does. The hardware and software has changed ... it needs to be (re-)validated. Also, the AP2 hardware needs to be present to implement the software, and to train it. There is necessarily a delay ... it is unavoidable. This was clear, and should have been communicated to new buyers. The ones upgraded from their ordered AP1 to AP2 because they did unexpectedly lose function (temporarily) -- but if it was I, I would have been glad to get much greater potential function, a worthy trade.

Yeah tough crowd. 1,000 people got the update 1 day late and the rest of us are looking at a week or two and folks are already out with pitchforks.

As I said previously, I have been a customer for 8 years (counting pre-order time) and this is my second car. Software has been late and some updates have been a little buggy but Tesla has always come through for me. There were a number of features delivered on my original S that I never expected at the time I ordered it and I anticipate that my latest car will have the same thing over time. It cuts both ways.

 

[whatthe2]

Truthfully, no - I had never heard of Tesla Time prior to reading this forum. And I don't see how the price is that relevant. I crossed shopped with a BMW M4 and my wife just purchased a $70k Mercedes E300, both cars within range of an S 60 with EAP and on both of those cars, what I saw as features on the website is what was expected and delivered ( at least for my wife's car, I obviously did not pull the tigger on the M4 - mostly due to EAP honestly).

Nor had I. I'm new to looking at Tesla. I reserved a Model 3 a month ago and am now considering an S as I love the car, and the company. I test drove a S75 (just before Christmas) and really liked the AP functionality, and was told by the Assistant Manager of the store that the new HW2 cars would have the AP1 functionality (but better) in "a week or so". I was considering getting an S60D before 12/31 to get the free Supercharging but decided to wait as I read TMC and saw that there may be an issue with the functionality being delivered as expected.

Glad I waited and will see how this shakes out. (Free Supercharging isn't a huge benefit for me, but I do think it helps in resale down the road). That being said, I'm still super excited to get a Tesla, but I am now considering a CPO AP1 while they sort out the issues with HW2. Based on the website and what the Reps told me, I fully "expected" to have at least AP1-like functionality in a new HW2 car by the end of December, or upon delivery (Mar/Apr) of a new car, but now I'm wondering if it's better to get an AP1 to get the functionality that I had during the test drive and not get a HW2 hoping they get things fixed in time for it to be beneficial to get a new car with HW2.

Either way, I can see why people are upset and can definitely see both sides of the argument. As a soon-to-be owner, I just want to make the right decision as a new owner looking to get into a Tesla before the M3 ships.