hill
high fiber member
So ~ is anyone's pie done yet? Ours is still throwing warnings about features being inoperative.
anybody ? . . . . . anybody ?
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anybody ? . . . . . anybody ?
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I am still waiting for the pie to be rolled out outside of California.
Sure, lets complain about how half assed the "expected" "December 2016" release was/is in another thread. Lets further have a huge technical discussion about AP2 stuff we actually can only remotely speculate about and then call each other out based on even more speculation.
This thread is supposed to be about the rollout or lack thereof of EAP to HW2 cars. I hope this EAP nonsense depresses sales and captures the attention of Tesla management. They extended the free supercharging demand lever but why buy EAP (much less FSD) knowing that Tesla blew yet another deadline? That hurts the margin Tesla badly needs to deliver a profit to shareholders. I also hope that they cannot book EAP funds based on delivering buggy software to 1000 Californians while ignoring the rest of us.
If you really like legacy automakers that much, go buy their own cars.
A fraction of Tesla's promises being fulfilled on time is still light-years ahead of every other car out there. Being slow and careful gets you something like Mercedes' lane keep assist--have fun experiencing something significantly worse than what Tesla released over a year ago at this point.
Maybe in 10 years, your legacy automaker car will have capabilities equal to what Teslas can do today. But hey, at least they will be on time and never broke a promise, right?
I bought a Tesla because I was impressed with what they have done so far and their rapid development cycle. I love their technology and the instant torque of an electric motor.
I think what has a lot of us miffed is having a car today with significantly deprecated functionality (AP) compared to what we test-drove and what was available a few years ago. Most of us very reasonably assumed that a majority of development on AP2.0 had taken place behind-the-scenes in the months preceding the October 2016 HW2 announcement. This assumption was further reinforced by scripted videos released by Tesla showing FSD in action, Tesla's own website, and the fact Tesla was charging very real money for an EAP/FSD feature-set. I feel this was a purposeful move to over-represent the current state of development in order to push Q4 sales.
I was misled to believe that the Oct-Dec 2016 was for final internal testing of the EAP and possibly FSD algorithms, and not for low-level alpha testing of CORE functionality. My bad. Had I known I would have probably waited a year to purchase and gotten a car with refreshed interior and HUD. Still hoping to reach parity by end of January 2017, but the significant calibration errors reported by some users makes me think it might take 6 months or more.
Fine. But now it's determined that my S60 cannot use 2.50.185 and will be without basic cruise control until some future undefined date, is it okay for me to complain during my 80 mile daily commute? There should be an uninstall feature so I can go back to 2.50.180.
hill
high fiber member
We bought strictly for tesla safety, including EAP. It's too off-topic to go into the 3 other issues we've had after only 3 hours max total driving (that includes ½ of our <80 odometer miles in the shop) time so far. On the bright side, who else has a brand new model S, 2 weeks old, still having less than 80 miles. Just imagine how long our non-traction pack & motor warranty is going to last!
The glass is still ½ full !
The glass is still ½ full !
I feel for you. I'm lucky that I don't have to drive that far on any particular day so lack of cruise control is a very minor issue at this point. That said, the night after receiving the update and losing cruise control, I did the 7 hour, 400+ mile drive from San Diego to San Jose. Doing that drive is painful in the best of circumstances. Doing it without cruise control was awful at times.
Also, fun note from that trip: You can count on the battery % remaining that shows up in navigation as long as you go roughly the speed limit normally but *not* on 70mph highways. Had it not shown up a message suggesting going below 70, I could have run out of charge before reaching the Gilroy supercharger.
No need. Attention is already captured.
We know from back when Tesla was recruiting software gurus that the AP development team reports directly to Elon. (IIRC there was a tweet from him which stated this)
Someone earlier in this thread linked to an article indicating that he is involved in weekly AP testing.
The Ashlee Vance biography is clear about his levels of drive, focus and expectation.
Unless you want to break into Tesla and literally hold a gun to peoples' heads, I don't see how you can increase the pressure.
And frankly, given some of the stories about Elon, a gun to the head might be welcomed as a kinder, gentler management style
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So much discussion... Send an email to [email protected] with any issues, questions, requests. They responded to me within a few days. Tell them you want to go back to .180, I'm sure they can do it for you.
hill
high fiber member
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but how does .180 remedy a feature that folks paid for that hasn't yet ever been active?
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He wants to go back to 2.50.180 so that he has basic CC. (Since with 2.50.185 he has nothing.)
I was misled to believe that the Oct-Dec 2016 was for final internal testing of the EAP and possibly FSD algorithms, and not for low-level alpha testing of CORE functionality. My bad. Had I known I would have probably waited a year to purchase and gotten a car with refreshed interior and HUD. Still hoping to reach parity by end of January 2017, but the significant calibration errors reported by some users makes me think it might take 6 months or more.
I'm sorry for you. But you knew from AP1 that 'tuning' of AI ( specifically neural net ) takes a lot of time.
What you describe as you impressions are essentially set of misunderstandings of how neural nets are working.
To code them is one problem, but tuning them is another, much bigger problem. It so natural to realize to anyone who once worked with deep neural nets.
so there was 'final internal testing of the EAP and possibly FSD algorithms' but at the same time - those algorithms could not work without millions of miles of drive testing. And naturally - if everything ( like in any neural based AI ) is not tuned - the first step to train basic functionality to working state or there will be too much problems for real drivers.
so 'scripted videos' is a wrong way to describe what you seen. You seen neural nets working in a narrow set of of situations. The same neural net will work further down the road ( as an algorithm ) but it is just not tuned to all situations and is now in process to be tuned.
How to verify what I say? Just take some example of deep neural net on github with initial training and watch how it behaves, then see how it behaves after extensive training with huge data sets. It's just the same neural net ( algorithm ) - but results are radically different.
so I would argue against notion of 'scripted, not ready algorithm'. what is lacking - is millions of miles of real driving. And this is what Tesla essentially did not communicated well. But could be inferred from AP1 process.
Sir, I have not owned a Tesla before and have not started reading these forums until just recently after purchasing my car. I had the Elon Musk biography on my nightstand and figured he was a brilliant man so I'd buy his car. I test drove an AP1 car once but that was the extent of my exposure.
It's not my responsibility to read internet posts beforehand but this is a learning experience to not take tech companies (or even geniuses) at face value. I hope you are right that the software is done and only will take millions of miles to calibrate.
That's an explanation but not a justification. Not every buyer is expected to have even partial understanding on neural nets or how marketing material saying it would be ready after final validation and legal steps really means.. and then we'll start the lengthy process of turning on features and tuning it, AP1 also worked pretty well out the box, no artificial speed limits, my auto wipers, headlights, collision detection, lane keeping and so on were there from day 1. This is worse than AP1 implementation.
I'd refrained from posting to get back on track but other threads are now on the go.
reading impressions of drivers (ex jumping dividing lines on dashboard ) it is still what I observe: a major part - those 'vision' algorithms from Tesla cameras which replaced proprietary mobileye camera system are not trained enough to be safe at high speed or allow to unlock other parts ( also not 'trained' on enough data ). So naturally to expect when this basic part is ok ( and still will require some time to be correct in most situations ) other parts of the software will be revealed.
My impression from others around these forums is that AP1 took on the order of a year to get *anything* at all after initial release of the hardware.
Bought my first 100k+ car and here's what I got...Mirrors that don't deploy correctly so that I can drive. Sunroof that opens 1 out of every 3 try's. 2 key fobs that show up as key fob 1, not individual fobs. An update that tells me camera's are calibrating for 10+ hours now and now have to take my first long trip with NO regular cruise control! You want us newbies not to be pissed????? I would have NEVER did the update if I knew I would lose cruise control. ROLL ME BACK!
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