Is Performance Worth It?

[ℬête Noire]

That’s an interesting argument. EAP vs Performance.

I’d take EAP any day. I have both. Even as it functions today. But I do expect it to improve a lot.

It was one of the major reasons I got the car.

I effectively did make the choice between P and EAP. The extra $11K at the time to go to P-, IIRC (I got my AWD in the first window where it was +$4K), really made me gut check and I would have had to cut EAP for it to fit the budget I set. I just couldn't bring myself to do that.

And would repeat the same decision of EAP over P in a heartbeat. It is what really bring the car together as a long trip dream. I've gotten so used to it even 1hr trips without it feel so much more tedious now. However it looks like roguenode 's particular circumstances don't suit it very well.

P.S. Of course with the $5K price drop and the knowledge of Track Mode details, if I'd been buying in Dec good chance I'd buy the P w/EAP, then strip and sell the stock wheels off it when it arrived and replaced with something that netted me maybe $1500-$2000. I probably could have squeezed really tight to get that into my budget.

 

[Randy7fx]

I have both, and absolutely love both. I have 10,500 miles on my P3D- that I picked up Sept 28. Commute about 80 miles per day, and have gone on a half dozen road trips 200-300 miles each way. I use EAP every single day on all highway driving to and from work, and most of my road trip driving. It just makes for a much less stressful drive. "Performance" part of the equation comes into play when not on the highway and is thrilling...even if just hitting 45 mph after accelerating from a red light.

 

[mswlogo]

P.S. Of course with the $5K price drop and the knowledge of Track Mode details, if I'd been buying in Dec good chance I'd buy the P w/EAP, then strip and sell the stock wheels off it when it arrived and replaced with something that netted me maybe $1500-$2000. I probably could have squeezed really tight to get that into my budget.

I think you’d be doing well if you netted $0.00 when all said and done.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I think you’d be doing well if you netted $0.00 when all said and done.

Still would be worth it.

Thin sidewalls make me hellva nervous, and I don't like how they look, either.

What's the going market rate mint 20" OEMs these days? I got my summer tire set for $1200, tire + wheel. ((EDIT: Bump to $1350 for TPMS )) I know it'd be a little being constrained to fit over the P calipers with 18", but still bargains are to be found if I was willing to go to 19".

 

[StealthP3D]

I'd take perf over EAP every time. I've got both and rarely use EAP.

That would be a VERY difficult choice for me. I solved it by getting both.

 

[StealthP3D]

What's the going market rate mint 20" OEMs these days?

You couldn't pay me enough to put 20" wheels/low profile tires on my Model 3. I don't even like the 19". The trend towards short profiles has gone so far overboard it's not even funny! IMO, an 18" 235/45 is a pretty sporty tire profile, just perfect for enthusiastic driving on public roads. On a track with sporty rubber, yeah, the 19" offer a cornering advantage but it's not very big (assuming equal tires).

 

[roguenode]

That would be a VERY difficult choice for me. I solved it by getting both.

Not so difficult for me, but then again, I don't have heavy metro traffic for most of my driving AND I also have both, so there's that.

 

[ngogas]

Simply put, do you need to drag race everyone at the stop light? Do you feel like hitting 0-60 between the lights, racing down to be the first one at the next red light? If so, get the performance. lol

 

[CAAD]

"do you need to drag race everyone at the stop light?"
Not so much drag race but I like to get away from stupid drivers. The next guy may think I'm drag racing.

We have a lot of babyboomers in the bay area that drive like theres a lot of time left in life.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not into the speed demons that like to slalom through traffic but please holding up traffic? No wonder its so bad.

Having the PUP satisfies my eyes, having performance satisfies the need to get up and go.
Motorcyclist know this advantage.

 

[roguenode]

Simply put, do you need to drag race everyone at the stop light? Do you feel like hitting 0-60 between the lights, racing down to be the first one at the next red light? If so, get the performance. lol

I suppose for some being a stoplight warriror is the only advantage of the performance model, but you don't need to care about that at all to use the perf model's extra power and track mode.

 

[Knightshade]

I suppose for some being a stoplight warriror is the only advantage of the performance model, but you don't need to care about that at all to use the perf model's extra power and track mode.

Really depends on where you are and where you drive.

95% of my daily drive is highway. There's virtually very very little difference between P- and AWD there... (P+ there is- a difference of crappy range and more concern about potholes)

Of the other 5% about 95% of that is on a single-lane each way rural road- so 0 chance to race anybody. So again no real difference between the cars.

In the entire daily drive there's exactly 2 or 3 (depending which way I go) total stoplights involved on a more-than-single-lane road, all of it in a 45 mph zone between highway exit and where I work.

 

[StealthP3D]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not into the speed demons that like to slalom through traffic but please holding up traffic? No wonder its so bad.

Years ago I was told that, in California, you don't signal to change lanes because if you do, the car in the adjacent lane will see your signal and speed up to block your lane change. I remember thinking, "How inconsiderate!". Well, that kind of inconsiderate, "every man for themselves" has now migrated up into Washington. Now I know how to deal with it.

I still give the signal that I'm about to change lanes, and I even pause a couple of seconds to see if the person in the adjacent lane is that kind of inconsiderate driver. If he is, I will see him immediately start to close the gap that I was signaling into. If I see that I simply press the accelerator and in 1/10th sec. I've matched their speed, in 2/10th's of a second I'm going a bit faster and in less than one-half second, it's all over. They wonder how I changed lanes without making them hit their brakes or being rude in any way. I particularly like there's no telltale exhaust note of a downshift and screaming engine to give away the fact that I momentarily punched it. It's all so effortless.

I love the instant response of both the Long Range and the P3D but the latter takes it to a whole different level.

 

[roguenode]

Really depends on where you are and where you drive.

95% of my daily drive is highway. There's virtually very very little difference between P- and AWD there... (P+ there is- a difference of crappy range and more concern about potholes)

Of the other 5% about 95% of that is on a single-lane each way rural road- so 0 chance to race anybody. So again no real difference between the cars.

In the entire daily drive there's exactly 2 or 3 (depending which way I go) total stoplights involved on a more-than-single-lane road, all of it in a 45 mph zone between highway exit and where I work.

I'm in the subset of potential P owners who would still seek out good driving roads for "sporty" driving just for fun, look for autocross events and track days. For the rest, no doubt that their daily driving environment can make or break the case for both the P and EAP.

 

[cmyke]

As someone who had an AWD on order who took a P3D+ when the opportunity presented itself, YES. It's absolutely worth it. Especially now that it's $5K cheaper.

Do I use the brutal acceleration much? No. I drive pretty gently, actually. But it's really neat knowing the most fun part of the car all happens at 0-30, below most speed limits.

I use other things, like EAP, constantly.

Here's what makes the P3D+ worth it: your friends. I've taken about 30 friends out for rides at this point. All of them, without fail, revert to giddy, childlike puddles of joy when I do the "acceleration test" with them. I've had the car packed with five men, all aged 55+, absolutely cackling.

That's what the P3D+ is. It's what makes me love showing it to people, friends and strangers alike.

You could have an incredible car with the AWD, or hell, the MR RWD. But they won't make an old retired Colonel giggle uncontrollably.

One thing to add: I've also taken a lot of strangers on rides at this point. My referral count, based on those drives, is 5. I attribute 80% of those referrals to the off-the-line acceleration of the P3D. YMMV.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

As someone who had an AWD on order who took a P3D+ when the opportunity presented itself, YES. It's absolutely worth it. Especially now that it's $5K cheaper.

Do I use the brutal acceleration much? No. I drive pretty gently, actually. But it's really neat knowing the most fun part of the car all happens at 0-30, below most speed limits.

I use other things, like EAP, constantly.

Here's what makes the P3D+ worth it: your friends. I've taken about 30 friends out for rides at this point. All of them, without fail, revert to giddy, childlike puddles of joy when I do the "acceleration test" with them. I've had the car packed with five men, all aged 55+, absolutely cackling.

That's what the P3D+ is. It's what makes me love showing it to people, friends and strangers alike.

You could have an incredible car with the AWD, or hell, the MR RWD. But they won't make an old retired Colonel giggle uncontrollably.

One thing to add: I've also taken a lot of strangers on rides at this point. My referral count, based on those drives, is 5. I attribute 80% of those referrals to the off-the-line acceleration of the P3D. YMMV.

I had a lot of fun with mine at Christmas time, in rural Virginia, showing the "pickup truck" side of the family how much fun it was.

 

[ℬête Noire]

You couldn't pay me enough to put 20" wheels/low profile tires on my Model 3. I don't even like the 19". The trend towards short profiles has gone so far overboard it's not even funny! IMO, an 18" 235/45 is a pretty sporty tire profile, just perfect for enthusiastic driving on public roads. On a track with sporty rubber, yeah, the 19" offer a cornering advantage but it's not very big (assuming equal tires).

Absolutely. However the nature of our society is that we have plenty of people out there with access to buckets more money than good sense and taste. My question is what would they pay me for the those 20" wheels in mint.

 

[Maximilien]

So if some guy tried to argue why he got the Performance Model, and it was because he runs a stressful business and the only way he can cope with running it was to have adrenaline at any moment?

Can he say the upgrade is worth from say a dual motor? I think the autopilot is the only big expense upgrade that is worth it. In the sense you can drive much longer distances and conserve your energy, which could prevent an accident. Autopilot takes away so many human error factors in the correct situations.

Objectively speaking, the difference between the P3D and 3D is 0-60 1.2 seconds (or 1 second without rollout) faster and the track mode. I highly doubt many people will bring it to the track.

P3D does not have premium features like HEPA filter. No sunroof availability (not yet). No power lift trunk. Maybe FUSC for those who had bought but it is not worth $5K, let alone even $12K.

So the buyer has to justify whether 1 second faster is worth 12K. However, for 1 second in the range or 3-4 seconds is a LOT! This is where it becomes subjective.

But I know most Model 3 drivers I have seen so far are babying their cars. I hardly see any Teslas speeding up at the stoplight.

Therefore, based on my observance, financially it makes more sense to get RWD LR or AWD. For those who bring it to track regularly or do the jackrabbit at stoplight may find it very worth.

 

[SammichLover]

I highly doubt many people will bring it to the track.....But I know most Model 3 drivers I have seen so far are babying their cars.

Which is a damn shame. I got what I thought at the time was a weird, puzzling comment at an Autocross event from another driver. "You're not a true believer, you're not like those other Tesla owners". At first I couldn't understand this given I think of myself as a "true believer" to the point I'm self-conscious of it. I am all about "this car is the future, and the future is happening now, by 2030 nearly all new vehicles sold will be electric". However given the context I think he meant "you come out here and drive it in the muck and the dirt like it was just another car". Well in my mind that's the pinnacle of a "true believer", that Teslas are very much displacing other cars in all function. Plus more. I can't comprehend buying this vehicle, any vehicle, and not using it for what it is capable of. It is my commuter sport sedan RV, every one of those in a practical way.

Hell, I made a Ranger involuntarily giggle when I took the vehicle out to show them a rattle. He tried not to, because his boss was with us observing on the visit, but he just couldn't help himself when I launched from a Stop left onto a shoulder-less highway off-camber. On another visit he told me why, because you're right that most owners he sees just don't actually use the capability of car. At least in front of him, I guess.

However the hypothetical from @JetFalcon was about something that would be using it, I think? They'd be buying it to get a little mud on the tires and wring out that performance from it.

For that, I'll say if I had the means to comfortably afford it (so without starving my children, or getting a divorce to live in a trailer in the woods and some how suing the necessary funds out of my spouse) in retrospect I would have gotten the P+. I had convinced myself I wouldn't actually use it, that the AWD was enough. And it is 'enough' but the P is more and I think I'd be using it if I had it. Just mostly not on public roads. So I was right to a degree but yet wrong because I didn't see myself as someone that would end up on track.

That said;

I hardly see any Teslas speeding up at the stoplight.

You might misunderstand the motivations here. Every amber you stop for is another chance to launch.

 

[StealthP3D]

However given the context I think he meant "you come out here and drive it in the muck and the dirt like it was just another car". Well in my mind that's the pinnacle of a "true believer", that Teslas are very much displacing other cars in all function. Plus more. I can't comprehend buying this vehicle, any vehicle, and not using it for what it is capable of.

It's a very capable gentlemen's express to the ski hill:

 

[Knightshade]

Objectively speaking, the difference between the P3D and 3D is 0-60 1.2 seconds (or 1 second without rollout) faster and the track mode.

It's 1 second quicker either way. Tesla is reporting one with rollout and one without right now (the same dishonest reporting they do for P models with the S and X too)

I highly doubt many people will bring it to the track.

True of most performance cars

P3D does not have premium features like HEPA filter. No sunroof availability (not yet).

Good. Sunroof adds weight, something else to break, and reduces headroom.

No power lift trunk. Maybe FUSC for those who had bought but it is not worth $5K, let alone even $12K.

Presumably that's why most folks took the 5k refund and gave up FUSC.

So the buyer has to justify whether 1 second faster is worth 12K.

Well, 5-6k for P3D- buyers... I think a lot more AWD guys would've paid that for the performance boost rather than 11k for that plus the boat anchor 20s and brakes they'd never get any benefit from.

(and they may still get the chance to do so, since killing the P3D- makes a future paid unlock for AWD more likely)