Looks like they are removing stalks from the 3/Y

[advocate8]

If you don't take it too far, then it wasn't really an obsession was it?

That’s not how the word is defined. It’s not a binary concept. You can be obsessed with something in a constructive way

 

[CyberGus]

That’s not how the word is defined. It’s not a binary concept. You can be obsessed with something in a constructive way

Compulsion is my only obsession

 

[4SUPER9]

That seems like a very narrow use case that few people would have. I'm having a hard time picturing it myself, a use case where shifting into reverse rapidly would be a life and death situation. For most people putting the car into reverse is a slow process, which is why most cars have the car operate much slower when in reverse. Although if you have such a demand, obviously the stalkless design is not for you.

I have actually had this exact experience several times. I needed to back into a driveway to charge or unload goods, pulled into the street, when someone came flying down the road at an insane speed. I threw the car into reverse, hit the pedal, and lurched forward. The stalkless design may be okay for many people, and maybe they even love it, but it is definitely not for many others. The issue is safety. Cars have to be made safe for everyone/lowest common denominator, not just the ones who think it is cool. The S/X are more elite cars, while the 3/Y are made more for the masses.

 

[mtmra70]

Those who can't handle no stalks, don't drive a stick. Going from 1st to R takes quite a bit of time. And deffently don't dtive a motorcycle where your reverse is you slowly pushing backwards on your toes.

 

[E90alex]

Those who can't handle no stalks, don't drive a stick. Going from 1st to R takes quite a bit of time. And deffently don't dtive a motorcycle where your reverse is you slowly pushing backwards on your toes.

I can shift my manual with my eyes closed. Can’t do that with a stalkless Tesla.

 

[DayTrippin]

Those who can't handle no stalks, don't drive a stick. Going from 1st to R takes quite a bit of time. And deffently don't dtive a motorcycle where your reverse is you slowly pushing backwards on your toes.

You can do this totally by feel with a manual gearbox. There is no equivalency here. It isn't just about time (though you waste a lot just getting your finger on a place where you can change direction), it is about what can easily be done by feel, totally without looking.

As for motorcycles, I've lost count at 200 how many I've owned.and probably ridden close to 1000 more. I taught MSF courses for years and worked for a major motorcycle manufacturer. I've done hand shift with foot clutch, left hand twist grip gear shift on the bars, same on the right side, right side gear shift lever with a wide variety of either all up, all down, etc., brake and gear shift right next to each other on the same side (don't miss with that one), as well as the more modern left side with all up, all down, 1 up, rest down, or 1 down and the rest up, DCT, torque converter, semi-automatics and more. I think I've probably done most of the gear shift combos you could have on motorcycles in my 50+ years of riding. One thing they ALL had in common was I could shift any of them without taking my eyes of the road and could do it all by feel, any time, and every time.

Try that in an S or X. The design is sub-optimal from an end user perspective.

 

[advocate8]

But you aren't talking only about the need to throw the car into reverse, but the need to do so in a split second where failing to do so would mean the difference between a collision or not. Most blind intersections that people are used to (like I am) are flanked by sidewalks, so you have space to creep into slowly without ever needing to reverse in a rapid fashion to avoid a collision.

The pedestrian in crosswalk you have plenty of time to back up, so it's an annoyance, not a safety issue.

Yes having tactile feedback is the ideal situation, but we have plenty of interfaces where we have moved away from that. The rise of the touchscreen pretty much killed a lot of tactile feedback interfaces. I grew up using phones with buttons, but the current generation grew up never using any type of phone other than with a touchscreen.

Compulsion is my only obsession

but how BIG an obsession?

 

[4SUPER9]

Those who can't handle no stalks, don't drive a stick. Going from 1st to R takes quite a bit of time. And deffently don't dtive a motorcycle where your reverse is you slowly pushing backwards on your toes.

Zero comparison here. Practical vs ludicrously impractical.

 

[smogne41]

Those who can't handle no stalks, don't drive a stick. Going from 1st to R takes quite a bit of time. And deffently don't dtive a motorcycle where your reverse is you slowly pushing backwards on your toes.

Grew up on manuals, still love to drive then when I get the chance. Will never buy a stalk-less car Tesla or otherwise because I think it is stupid. I value well designed tactical driving controls that I can use just with muscle memory. I am totally sure I would have no real trouble driving a stalk-less Tesla, but I am also totally sure it would make me mad every time I saw it, because bad design pisses me off.

 

[danarcha]

Those who can't handle no stalks, don't drive a stick. Going from 1st to R takes quite a bit of time. And deffently don't dtive a motorcycle where your reverse is you slowly pushing backwards on your toes.

In both your examples, you can do it by touching something physical without taking your eyes off the road, just like using stalks. You have missed the point. The problem with removing the stalks is you have to take your eyes off the road and fiddle around with a touch screen.

 

[4SUPER9]

Grew up on manuals, still love to drive then when I get the chance. Will never buy a stalk-less car Tesla or otherwise because I think it is stupid. I value well designed tactical driving controls that I can use just with muscle memory. I am totally sure I would have no real trouble driving a stalk-less Tesla, but I am also totally sure I it would make me mad every time I saw it, because bad design pisses me off.

Why do people really like a stupid horrible design, and insist that because they like it, it is great? That’s the only argument I have seen in favor of this: “I like it, so it’s wonderful, and everyone else has a problem.” Just plan idiotic. Create a process that can be universally accepted. Not something that a tiny minority likes and blame 99% of others for complaining.

 

[stopcrazypp]

In both your examples, you can do it by touching something physical without taking your eyes off the road, just like using stalks. You have missed the point. The problem with removing the stalks is you have to take your eyes off the road and fiddle around with a touch screen.

The take I got was the danger of the stalkless design is the speed at which you can accomplish it, not necessarily the part about taking eyes off the road to confirm the car is in reverse.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

I'm surprised that people are unable to imagine a situation in which they might be looking in the direction of expected travel and end up running down pedestrians in the other direction because their finger swiped a little off-axis or they accidentally swiped in the normal direction instead of backwards.

Also, all this gearshift "obsession" is drowning out the countless ways that not having immediate, intuitive, and eyes-on-the-road access to the headlights, wipers, or turn signals can put people in danger. Nevermind the generally crappy driving experience of having to look down and read all the tiny button icons every single time you want to use the cruise control.

 

[danarcha]

The take I got was the danger of the stalkless design is the speed at which you can accomplish it, not necessarily the part about taking eyes off the road to confirm the car is in reverse.

Taking your eyes off the road to fumble with a touch screen IS much slower than reaching for a physical lever, knob, stick, stalk etc. And, while you are doing that you are not looking at the road!! It's a matter of BOTH not not being able to change directions quickly and not seeing what is in front of you while making the change.

And don't get me started about the horn button on both the yolk and the the stalkless wheel. In an emergency, you should be able to quickly activate the horn without looking or even thinking. This is much better accomplished by pressing the center of the wheel, not by moving your thumb around to find a non-physical button that is flush with the rest of the wheel's surface.

 

[BigNick]

Bad news. A picture of the Cybertruck's interior was recently released and it is stalkless also assuming it's legit.

Tesla Cybertruck interior revealed in new photo

A new picture of a Tesla Cybertruck prototype has revealed the interior of the electric pickup truck, and it’s definitely...

electrek.co

Swiping a touchscreen to change gears is terrible. It's even dumber than the radio-knob style gear shifters (which are also plenty dumb, but at least you can get used to "two clicks clockwise for drive" or "two clicks counter clockwise for reverse" patterns.)

 

[Brou]

Bad news. A picture of the Cybertruck's interior was recently released and it is stalkless also assuming it's legit.

Tesla Cybertruck interior revealed in new photo

A new picture of a Tesla Cybertruck prototype has revealed the interior of the electric pickup truck, and it’s definitely...

electrek.co

Swiping a touchscreen to change gears is terrible. It's even dumber than the radio-knob style gear shifters (which are also plenty dumb, but at least you can get used to "two clicks clockwise for drive" or "two clicks counter clockwise for reverse" patterns.)

Literally reinventing the wheel.

Compare that interior with the R1T's interior. It's like Tesla is actually trying to help their competition. Who's cross shopping these two and picking the Cybertruck?

Vs

 

[DayTrippin]

The CT is hideous. It isn't a yoke, it is a woke. It looks like that aftermarket yoke where the screwed a clear acrylic bar across it. I can't find the link but it show looks similar.

Based on the dash alone, I'd buy the Rivian in a heartbeat. I drove one and after driving it, unless the CT is amazing, I'd definitely buy the Rivian.

I didn't think there was anything more spartan looking than the 3/Y but something Tesla managed to do it with the CT. It just looks cheap as hell. Hard pass for me.

 

[E90alex]

Wow look at that giant spacious dinner table!

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

The CT yoke configuration appears identical to the current S/X with the exception of the icons/positions of the horn and cruise control. Did they just move them a little or are they somehow different?

Also, really dumb idea to conflate the autopilot controls with the radio controls.

CT:

S/X:

 

[E90alex]

The CT yoke configuration appears identical to the current S/X with the exception of the icons/positions of the horn and cruise control. Did they just move them a little or are they somehow different?

Also, really dumb idea to conflate the autopilot controls with the radio controls.

CT:
View attachment 940975

S/X:
View attachment 940974

It doesn’t look like a horn icon to the upper left of the right scroll wheel. Maybe a phone button? Maybe they finally put the horn back in the center airbag?