M3P $3000+ off

[DMan]

Coming from the S forum, my 2015 85D w/ 84k miles will run out of HV battery warranty in Sept. Roll the dice or switch it up? VIN is 100xxx and one thing I learned from this forum is anything above 70xxx VIN has a more robust HV battery but you never know. Free SC and free connectivity.

Test drove the MY and M3P back to back (no regular LR AWD M3 available). Preferred the driving dynamics of the M3 much better but the MY does have more utility of course.
I actually prefer regular LR AWD M3 with 330 mile range but those are "only" discounted by $500 for existing inventory vs $3000+ for existing M3P inventory.

I know the new M3 is around the corner but would not get it before the battery warranty expires and my S is in need of new rubber this fall so it seems like it's a good time to pull the trigger. Have owned it for 4.5 years now.

What are your thoughts on the discounts on the M3P and M3P in general? I will hardly ever blast from 0-60 in 3.1 sec so the extra 15 miles of range is more useful but then again it's only an extra 15 miles. If they discount the M3P any more it will be the same price as a LR M3 AWD!

 

[father_of_6]

In my opinion, the M3LR wins because of the 18" wheels. The M3P with 18" wheels would be better.

Perhaps the bigger wheels look better (subjective), but objectively the reduce range, reduce ride comfort, cost a lot more for tires (and this car eats tires if you like acceleration), and are easier to blow... I've read multiple posts of tires blown from hitting potholes.

 

[Clover]

At the current prices, the M3P seems like the obvious answer to me over the M3 LR AWD. However, your battery is not going to die the day after the warranty expires. It is not like a timing chain that brakes on a motor and it eats itself. If you're that scared, fine, but it would be hard to argue from a financial standpoint that a new car would save you over a used car you already own, even considering many repairs. Even if you have the worst luck in the world and need to replace your battery, drive units, and screen, I bet you would be around the price difference between the cars. That is unlikely though. So... buy it if you want it. I did.

 

[Clover]

In my opinion, the M3LR wins because of the 18" wheels. The M3P with 18" wheels would be better.

Perhaps the bigger wheels look better (subjective), but objectively the reduce range, reduce ride comfort, cost a lot more for tires (and this car eats tires if you like acceleration), and are easier to blow... I've read multiple posts of tires blown from hitting potholes.

Eh, I'd disagree to a certain degree for me personally. The main benefit of the smaller wheel is improved efficiency, which I could care less about considering I start each day with more charge than I use and electricity is relatively cheap.

I could be wrong, but I bet you would have little trouble trading out your Performance wheels and tires for a set of 18" Aero wheels and tires locally. Actually, you should probably expect to get money back on top of that exchange since the 20s are worth more. The tires on the 18's are made for efficiency and not performance, so anyone looking for performance would consider the 18" tires a big downgrade on the 20 Performance tires. The downside of that is the 20's Performance tires should not be driven in the snow. If you drive in the snow though, you are much, much better off with winter tires in place of all seasons. I always buy winter tires for where I live, so this drawback had no impact on me. I am considerably better served in both the summer and winter with 20 performance wheels and my winter setup than a set of 18's. To me, the 18's would a total waste as I would replace those tires right away. I know a lot of EV drivers get into being as efficient as possible, which is fine. However, it makes less sense to be efficient an EV than ICE. Think about it, how much are you. paying for a big 10% drop in efficiency? $20/year or something. You can happily have my $20 or even a lot more in exchange for a shorter stopping distance and higher limits around turns, plus the ability to stomp as much as I want.

Having said that, I went with 19's instead of 20's for my winter setup for a little more comfort and much better tire options. 19's cost a bit more than 18's, but not much. When I kill the stock 20's, I plan to get another set of 19 wheels and sell the 20 Performance. The Performance wheels are super heavy and like stated above, you pay a premium for tires. 19" is my happy middle ground.

TLDR; if you want Performance, get the Performance. If you prioritize efficiency, go for the LR AWD. Neither is wrong, just depends on your priorities but I'm happy they have options.

 

[AltimaBoi]

I would have gotten the performance if they offered it with 18" wheels. In your situation, I'd still go for the M3LR even if the discount is only $500 primarily because I thought the ride was too jarring in the M3P with the giant wheels.

From what I understand, it has larger brakes and a sportier suspension so it will not clear the aero wheels without modification (or having to buy very expensive aftermarket 18" wheels built to clear those brakes). It's a lot of trouble to go through IMO.

 

[father_of_6]

I'm biased towards the M3, so I would "switch it up"... doesn't make that the right decision for you though.

From a financial standpoint, you'd probably get enough from the S to get the 3 and pay nothing out of pocket, and you get to abandon the risk of owning out of warranty.

The P is still thousands less than the LR, even though the discount is deeper. Those few thousand may come back to you in resale value with the P, but maybe not.

If you don't care about 0-60, then the only reason to buy the P would be a financial one, and I just don't think that exists... but *maybe* it does. Maybe you spend a few thousand more and you get $6k more back in resale value. Maybe.

 

[mswlogo]

I would have gotten the performance if they offered it with 18" wheels. In your situation, I'd still go for the M3LR even if the discount is only $500 primarily because I thought the ride was too jarring in the M3P with the giant wheels.

From what I understand, it has larger brakes and a sportier suspension so it will not clear the aero wheels without modification (or having to buy very expensive aftermarket 18" wheels built to clear those brakes). It's a lot of trouble to go through IMO.

Larger brakes are cause more trouble. When one pedal driving the will tend to rust up rotors faster than standard brakes.

If you drive like you stole it or frequent the track you’ll be happy with the larger brakes. If not they are a disadvantage. Just like the big wheels are a headache. So will be the big brakes.

 

[afadeev]

What are your thoughts on the discounts on the M3P and M3P in general? I will hardly ever blast from 0-60 in 3.1 sec so the extra 15 miles of range is more useful but then again it's only an extra 15 miles. If they discount the M3P any more it will be the same price as a LR M3 AWD!

If you are a car guy, then extra performance of M3P is a no-brainer.
If you are not, then it will be wasted on you.

Perhaps the bigger wheels look better (subjective), but objectively the reduce range, reduce ride comfort, cost a lot more for tires (and this car eats tires if you like acceleration), and are easier to blow... I've read multiple posts of tires blown from hitting potholes.

20" wheels, by themselves, have no effect on range vs. 18" wheels.
What does the trick are the high performance summer tires (Michelin PS4S's) that come standard with 20" wheels vs. crappy all season sh*t on OEM 18" wheels.
It's a question of performance and handling vs. range.
If you appreciate the former, then 20" wheels shod with PS4S's are wonderful.
If you don't, then it's just a more expensive wheel + tire combo that reduced your range.

Larger brakes are cause more trouble. When one pedal driving the will tend to rust up rotors faster than standard brakes.

That is 100% FALSE.
Your car will still use brakes to come to a complete stop, and larger TM3P brake rotors don't rust any more or less girly rotors on lesser Model 3's. As in - they do NOT rust at all!

HTH,
a

 

[mswlogo]

If you are a car guy, then extra performance of M3P is a no-brainer.
If you are not, then it will be wasted on you.



20" wheels, by themselves, have no effect on range vs. 18" wheels.
What does the trick are the high performance summer tires (Michelin PS4S's) that come standard with 20" wheels vs. crappy all season sh*t on OEM 18" wheels.
It's a question of performance and handling vs. range.
If you appreciate the former, then 20" wheels shod with PS4S's are wonderful.
If you don't, then it's just a more expensive wheel + tire combo that reduced your range.



That is 100% FALSE.
Your car will still use brakes to come to a complete stop, and larger TM3P brake rotors don't rust any more or less girly rotors on lesser Model 3's. As in - they do NOT rust at all!

HTH,
a

100% true. The rotors will do less work per square inch. Because they are simply bigger. So they are more prone to rust from low (one pedal) usage. If use them proportionately more braking harder and more often then they will get equally “polished”. Or if you don’t use the brakes at all you correct they would rust up at the same rate. But if you have them do the same work they just won’t wear in (self polished) as fast. They are super over kill for one pedal, efficient driving. They will cost more to maintain too.

 

[father_of_6]

20" wheels, by themselves, have no effect on range vs. 18" wheels.

Pretty sure this is not accurate. 18" wheels are lighter and thus more efficient.

 

[Knightshade]

Pretty sure this is not accurate. 18" wheels are lighter and thus more efficient.

They also allow a higher profile tire so the ride is less rough, and you're less prone to damage the rims from a bad pothole or something.

 

[aclosedmind]

Pretty sure this is not accurate. 18" wheels are lighter and thus more efficient.

This^^^ Tesla themselves quote different ranges on Teslas based on wheel size. The M3P doesn't show this as there is only one size wheel available.

My new M3P arrives next week. The stock 20s are coming off immediately to be replaced by 18" TSportlines (which DO fit the performance brake calipers). I expect a range somewhere between an M3LR and M3P. The weight savings are significant. Rotating mass is a thing.

 

[Elektrick]

This^^^ Tesla themselves quote different ranges on Teslas based on wheel size. The M3P doesn't show this as there is only one size wheel available.

My new M3P arrives next week. The stock 20s are coming off immediately to be replaced by 18" TSportlines (which DO fit the performance brake calipers). I expect a range somewhere between an M3LR and M3P. The weight savings are significant. Rotating mass is a thing.

Smart. That's exactly what I did. The 20s Uber heavies came off immediately. When I put on my forged 19s that weigh only 23lbs (wheel only) vs the 20 Ubers that weigh 32lbs! the difference was night and day. The stock 20s really ruins the driving dynamics IMO. To each their own, but shaving off a good chunk of unsprung weight is a big deal that can be felt all around.

In terms of range, even with my non aero focused aftermarket wheels, if I semi-hyper mile it at ~70-75MPH I can get pretty good Wh/mi. On a 200+ mile road trip just last week I averaged 276 Wh/mi with a fully loaded car consisting of car parts (suspension kits etc...) and heavy items. Do note that my car is lowered and that helps some. If the car was empty I'm positive that the Wh/mi would be lower as I've seen it before. Now if I were to really hyper mile it pegged at 60MPH on AP I could easily match the efficiency of an M3LR running in around 260s.

@DMan here's my 2 cents.

Remember all those paper figures are to be taken with a grain of salt. Especially from Tesla. The difference between the M3P and M3LR in the real world is almost non-existent as we don't drive our cars from 100% to 0%, rather we're typically leaving for a longer trip at 80-90/95% and getting to the next charger with plenty of buffer left, therefore, that delta on paper doesn't matter for most people. (YMMV of course, but in general...) With that said for real world applications for most people the difference is negligible.

From looking at the history of the cars that you've owned, if you can land a M3P at a really good deal, then I'd say go for it. You'll get the best driving dynamcis with the M3P hands down out of any 3 or Y models. With the money saved you can always put that toward some proper wheels & tires. Sell the stock 20s to recoup some. Forget about the M3LR, unless you need it for a specific reason like not wanting to do anything to the car and just drive it stock. If you do get the M3P, getting rid of those 20 Ubers is highly recommended, especially if the roads where you live are bad.

 

[afadeev]

Pretty sure this is not accurate. 18" wheels are lighter

... and higher sidewall 18" tires are heavier ...

and thus more efficient.

... thus .... draw your own conclusions!

In reality, a combination of factors are in play here: tire stickiness, overall unspring weight, actual wheel+tire combo aerodynamics, etc, etc.

 

[aclosedmind]

I'm not generally one to get into absolutist disagreements online that go on and on, but there are a myriad of posts, stories, and videos showing that an 18" wheel + tire is significantly lighter than a 20" wheel/tire. If you go with aftermarket wheels from TSportline, Martian, or comparable, you can see a weight savings of 10 or more lbs per wheel. That may not sound like much, but unsprung weight and rotating mass being reduced at each wheel by that much is significant.

I'm going with 18" Tsportlines with the M3LR stock tires, personally. While its impossible to know for 100% certain how much range increase there will be from this change, there absolutely will be a range increase. That is physics and is inarguable. Anyone trying to tell you that lighter wheels won't make any difference to range or other factors is sadly misinformed.

If you like big wheels, you don't have to go smaller to get a lighter wheel. Forged or flow forged wheels are always lighter (and stronger) than cast. TSportline specializes in flow forged wheels that are copies of Tesla designs in various sizes. Martian wheels are fully forged (and more expensive), using their own designs.

Lots of videos showing/proving the reduced whr/mi from using a lighter wheel of any size. You can do even better going with narrower tires at the same time.

Also worth noting that the benefits of lighter wheels are not limited to EVs. On ICE vehicles they get the same improvements to handling, acceleration, and ride quality. Unsprung weight is the enemy of these and reducing it pays dividends, even on non EVs, always.

 

[saywhatmustang]

20" wheels, by themselves, have no effect on range vs. 18" wheels.


HTH,
a

... and higher sidewall 18" tires are heavier ...

The original argument you started was about the size of the wheel.

Pretty sure its common knowledge that lighter wheels will reduce rotating mass= less energy used to spin them.
While I get your argument that you can put on light 18 inch wheels and pair them with say a heavy track tire such as cups 2s, your efficiency can be worse than a 20 inch wheels with said oem ps4s tire. But don't tell the same could be said if i put that cup 2 on the 20 inch wheel, and not have worse efficiency then the 18 inch wheel.

weight of oem perf wheel 32lb according to tsportline
weight of oem ts5 wheel 22lb according to t sportline
weight of piolot sport all season 4 in oem size 235/35ZR20 24lbs according to tire rack
weight of pilot sport all season 4 in 235/45/18 26lbs according to tire rack

You save roughly 32lbs just dropping down to 18s and that is indisputable.

 

[Apprunner]

I had 20 inch wheels with PS4S for 2.5 years. I averaged about 330 wh/mi.

I've had 18 inch wheels for 1 year with PS4S and i average about 300 wh/mi. Same commute and same driving style. Not claiming anything...just giving the facts.

 

[terranx]

... and higher sidewall 18" tires are heavier ...

They’re actually not in many cases. At worst they’ll be about the same weight, but usually are lighter. PS4S in particular are same weight for our 18s and 20s. And since the weight isn’t as concentrated towards the edge, the rotational inertia is less regardless.

 

[rudngo]

100% true. The rotors will do less work per square inch. Because they are simply bigger. So they are more prone to rust from low (one pedal) usage. If use them proportionately more braking harder and more often then they will get equally “polished”. Or if you don’t use the brakes at all you correct they would rust up at the same rate. But if you have them do the same work they just won’t wear in (self polished) as fast. They are super over kill for one pedal, efficient driving. They will cost more to maintain too.

Um, what? Rotors only rust when they're wet. As soon as they are applied 1 time, any surface rust goes away. It's not like they just sit there and constantly rust while you're not looking.

In terms of costing more to maintain - possible. But that cost is amortized over such a long period of time, it will be negligible in the long run. Are they super overkill for 1 pedal driving (or just everyday driving for an ICE car)? Certainly.

<-- has multiple cars with very big steel brakes that unfortunately sit around a lot and are rust free

 

[Elektrick]

I had 20 inch wheels with PS4S for 2.5 years. I averaged about 330 wh/mi.

I've had 18 inch wheels for 1 year with PS4S and i average about 300 wh/mi. Same commute and same driving style. Not claiming anything...just giving the facts.

To add to this, all my averages between the stock 20 Ubers and my fully forged lighter 19s had a ~30 Wh/mi spread.