Mach-E road trip becomes a charging fiasco...

[Needsdecaf]

True, you know this, I know this. How many first time EV buyers know this? Just like first time Tesla buyers who are not EV crazy don't know they can use other chargers other than Tesla SC or Tesla branded.

True enough.

On another EV forum, a member was discussing how people in his neighborhood were supercharging their Teslas exclusively, and parked them in their driveway unplugged. He asked them why they didn't at least plug into a 110. They were like "wait, you can charge this at home?"

ZOINKS!?!?!?

 

[mk677]

Just because Ford pays for you to use EA doesn't mean you have to stick only with that network. There are others. That's the beauty and the curse of competition.

ford, like porsche, audi, VW offer free charging on the EA network just like tesla offers for some free charging on their network. when I can get something for "free" why would I pay for it of the free stuff is easily obtained?

 

[mk677]

True, you know this, I know this. How many first time EV buyers know this? Just like first time Tesla buyers who are not EV crazy don't know they can use other chargers other than Tesla SC or Tesla branded.

In the US what fast charging (dc) other than the superchargers can a tesla charge on?

 

[SO16]

In the US what fast charging (dc) other than the superchargers can a tesla charge on?

Chaedemo

https://www.chargepoint.com/files/Quick_Guide_to_Fast_Charging.pdf

 

[FordMME]

Chaedemo

That standard is obsolete. There are still some of those plugs to be found (EA typically has one per station) but not nearly as many as CCS.

 

[T3SLAROD]

That standard is obsolete. There are still some of those plugs to be found (EA typically has one per station) but not nearly as many as CCS.

You being an owner what are your thoughts on what Ford should do?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Chaedemo

https://www.chargepoint.com/files/Quick_Guide_to_Fast_Charging.pdf

CCS1 also with the Setec adapter:

Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter

Because of multiple threads in multiple sub-forums concerning this adapter, starting this one as a single point of knowledge. Background - Purchased the Setec CCS1 adapter and received today. Tried on a BTCPower station operated by Blink. Got both communications errors and failed isolation...

teslamotorsclub.com

Technically Tesla can release a similar CCS1 adapter in US (they have done so already in Europe), but haven't yet.

 

[Zer0t]

white washed? you know about it, terrible white washing job.
you might be shocked to learn that in the years prior to the US getting involved in that war that there were many who were friendly to the germans and the cause.

Not only that the Nazis looked to turn of the 20th century America for clues in eugenics policies. Read the book the Nazi doctors, it’s horrifying, but gives some treatment to this topic.

 

[Needsdecaf]

ford, like porsche, audi, VW offer free charging on the EA network just like tesla offers for some free charging on their network. when I can get something for "free" why would I pay for it of the free stuff is easily obtained?

Um, when you're having problems with the "easily" part?

 

[Zorg]

It isn’t Ford’s network. It is composed of multiple third parties. Hence the teething issues.

But 3P is the future - we don’t have proprietary gas stations. Tesla has a big head start and its Supercharging network is vastly superior, for now. Eventually it will be obsolete. Everyone else is adopting CCS. CCS may very well be the VHS to Tesla’s Betamax, but VHS won. It’s all about adoption.

I agree. In the long run, charging stations should be agnostic third party. Having a network for Rivian, another for Tesla, etc. is counter productive to the overall EV adoption. It's probably only a few years away. One main issue is that I don't know if EV charging stations can make any money, even if they were to do away with free charging. Say the average charging is 40KWh/30mns per car, or say $10-15. That may be 25 charging events per day (call it $250 a day per stall). So 10 stalls at $250/day, 30 days a month: $75000 a month, but that implies pretty much non stop charging 7 days a week. Reality is probably more like $20K a month (and that would be in CA only for now). I don't know if there is enough margin in there to even cover regular maintenance/location rental.

 

[FordMME]

You being an owner what are your thoughts on what Ford should do?

About the public charging? Personally, I think that given the investment Ford has made in EVs, it had better take a more active role in developing the third party network (not to mention fixing the current bugs). Pretty risky just to sit back and wait.

Partnering with EA or CP etc. to install stations at many dealerships would seem to be a common sense, symbiotic step. Likewise I would partner with a major retailer to install stations there. By “partner,” this would include Ford partially subsidizing the installations.

This subsidy becomes tricky because Ford would be paying for stations that can be used by competitors, but Ford could require those stations to charge non-Ford models a slightly higher rate. That price difference could be paid back to Ford over time until the subsidy was reimbursed.

 

[FordMME]

I agree. In the long run, charging stations should be agnostic third party. Having a network for Rivian, another for Tesla, etc. is counter productive to the overall EV adoption. It's probably only a few years away. One main issue is that I don't know if EV charging stations can make any money, even if they were to do away with free charging. Say the average charging is 40KWh/30mns per car, or say $10-15. That may be 25 charging events per day (call it $250 a day per stall). So 10 stalls at $250/day, 30 days a month: $75000 a month, but that implies pretty much non stop charging 7 days a week. Reality is probably more like $20K a month (and that would be in CA only for now). I don't know if there is enough margin in there to even cover regular maintenance/location rental.

Right. I have no idea how these charging companies are making money. I’m pretty sure they aren’t. But like a lot of businesses you don’t necessarily need to turn a profit for a long time as long as you can round up the investors.

 

[SO16]

That standard is obsolete. There are still some of those plugs to be found (EA typically has one per station) but not nearly as many as CCS.

Well if it can still be found at each EA station, it’s still an option. Better than nothing. But I don’t use it.

Yes I realize CCS is the current standard. Unfortunately Tesla doesn’t currently provide a CCS adapter in the US like they do in Europe.

 

[stopcrazypp]

About the public charging? Personally, I think that given the investment Ford has made in EVs, it had better take a more active role in developing the third party network (not to mention fixing the current bugs). Pretty risky just to sit back and wait.

Partnering with EA or CP etc. to install stations at many dealerships would seem to be a common sense, symbiotic step. Likewise I would partner with a major retailer to install stations there. By “partner,” this would include Ford partially subsidizing the installations.

This subsidy becomes tricky because Ford would be paying for stations that can be used by competitors, but Ford could require those stations to charge non-Ford models a slightly higher rate. That price difference could be paid back to Ford over time until the subsidy was reimbursed.

I think the way they are doing it is free charging included with the car for x amount of time. Nissan had a program that allowed 2 years free charging at participating networks (called No Charge to Charge). That money Nissan paid for it would go toward investment in the stations.
FAQ

However, from how the economics work out, I doubt that level of investment is enough. Really what needs to be done is actual direct investment into stations like Tesla is doing. However, with third party networks such investments benefit competitors also and companies that made no such investment still get to use the same networks. Charging more per-use fees is unlikely enough to cover for it.

 

[miimura]

Just because Ford pays for you to use EA doesn't mean you have to stick only with that network. There are others. That's the beauty and the curse of competition.

EA is the only network that has deployed a significant number of DCFC above 63kW. On Kyle's drive, I would have charged at the EVgo station in Baker instead of EA because they have 150-350kW chargers just for a change of pace, and to see if the EVgo high power chargers worked any better than EA even though they're made by the same vendors.

 

[Big Earl]

In the US what fast charging (dc) other than the superchargers can a tesla charge on?

CHAdeMO with the adapter from Tesla and CCS with the adapter from SETEC POWER (not shouting; their name is all caps). Both of those are slower than Superchargers but provide a lot more options, often in places where Supercharger density is still low. At such a time when Tesla releases a CCS1 adapter, speeds should be comparable to V2 Superchargers (up to 150 kW).

 

[SO16]

CHAdeMO with the adapter from Tesla and CCS with the adapter from SETEC POWER (not shouting; their name is all caps).

I wonder how well the CCS adapter works in the US and what speeds.

 

[Big Earl]

I wonder how well the CCS adapter works in the US and what speeds.

Big thread with all of the growing pains and details here: Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter

Models 3 & Y charge at up to 125 amps (50 kW). Models S & X are up to 200 amps (80 kW).

 

[PungoteagDave]

Try driving outside of Florida. I've driven 30,000 miles on road trips in Teslas in these states. You can find hundreds of 200+ mile trips between Superchargers if you look at a map.

Nope. I've driven from Seattle to Key West, Calais Maine to San Diego and MANY remote places in between. Hardly anywhere more than 125 miles from a Supercharger these days my friend. You have to search hard to find one. My first MS, in January 2013 required LOTs of stops at KOAs, marinas, friends dryer outlets. Today you can go most anywhere in the U.S., no full charges required.

 

[PungoteagDave]

Just try going Orlando to Everglades City the shortest route. No Superchargers, plenty of no-human land, over 200 miles.

But who would DO that? Ridiculous assertion. Like saying let's drive across the U.S. on dirt roads because it's shorter. I've done it on adventure motorcycles. Yes, it can be shorter, but it takes WAY longer. No one drives down central Florida and there's no call for a Supercharger in the middle of the Everglades. There are MANY superchargers between Orlando and Everglades City where people actually drive. Sheesh.