Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[aronth5]

Boston, LA, NYC don't care. I just want FSD to handle the round about I take every day just once without stopping and screwing up as it struggles to go around, Doesn't matter from which entry point FSD tries it simply messes up. Of course 70% of the time I have to use the go pedal since the drivers behind me are not terribly nice about waiting and waiting and waiting!

 

[Ben W]

Well, I see humans failing here in New England all the time. Not like being stupid aggressive failing, but turning into the wrong lane because the intersection is confusing. I am an optimist when it comes to FSD hitting L4/5 some day, but I don't believe it can get there by just assessing the scene in a stateless manner. At some point, it needs to either remember how certain intersections work, or it can reference some data that tells it what's approaching.

If the intersection is confusing to most humans, that certainly calls for better signage. But yes, crowdsourcing information like this (from manual or FSD cars) will be an essential part of improving L4 reliability. For instance, my neighborhood is a tiny cul-de-sac that is nominally 25mph speed limit, but in practice 10mph (5mph for speed bumps). I have to manually dial down the FSD speed every time. At some point it should catch on and start reducing the speed automatically, at least for my car, but probably for all cars.

Granted they are nowhere near the point where such fine-tuning is at the top of their to-do list, but I think they will get there in a year or two. It will certainly be needed to make city-streets FSD worth using at L2, let alone L4.

 

[Bladerskb]

Well, I see humans failing here in New England all the time. Not like being stupid aggressive failing, but turning into the wrong lane because the intersection is confusing. I am an optimist when it comes to FSD hitting L4/5 some day, but I don't believe it can get there by just assessing the scene in a stateless manner. At some point, it needs to either remember how certain intersections work, or it can reference some data that tells it what's approaching.

Which is the crucible of HD maps. Its insane that people actually think that going into every intersection blind is an advantage.
Imagine having my memory wiped every time before i leave for work or take a drive. I would be lane hunting and all over the place like FSD Beta, reacting rather than anticipating.

 

[fiveten]

Maybe this is posted elsewhere in this thread, but I haven't seen it...but yesterday I learned you could do FSD while in Reindeer Mode...very strange!

 

[brunla]

As I've said before, no one is rooting for Tesla and for FSD's success more than me. Have now owned multiple Tesla's (not a flex, I am just a foolishly committed early adopter, always drooling for the latest Tesla tech - wish I was smart enough to have bought their stock rather than upgrading vehicles over the years). Got 10.5 but have been avoiding using/testing FSD for awhile since the experience here in Santa Monica, CA is exhausting and depressing. Finally made a real effort to use 10.5 yesterday on several drives. I am so disappointed. Here, it is demonstrably worse even than last iteration, shakier on turns, equally middle of the road when no lines (until opposing traffic appears, and then too late), tons of abrupt braking, weird diving to right or left as approaching intersections, disengagements, unable to handle roundabouts, etc. My confidence that Tesla can come close to solving this is completely eroded, made worse when I reflect on the years late in the game huge shift to vision only. I truly can't imagine FSD becoming "useable" from where it is now (other than on freeways, where it is pretty decent), and suspect that despite Elon and Co.'s brilliance, FSD will require step-change more sensor and computing power than their current effort. Have others similarly lost faith?

@Silenus136 It is horrible in LA. Undrivable really for me. Much easier in Palm Springs where there is more wide open space and less aggressive drivers all around you. That being said, take note of your GPS location. Zoom in to where your car is on the screen. Are you directly on the road where you should be, or is your GPS location off? I noticed that my car is driving to the right or left of the road through buildings. Sometimes 1/2 block away. When that happens FSD Beta is undrivable. When I recalibrate cameras (which only lasts a short time) it is better driving. But then it goes off again. I would be curious to know if your GPS is off as well. Here is an example. I was on WIlshire Blvd at the time and my car was showing 1/2 block away.

 

[Gigaron]

When I'm driving in San Jose, I'm never wondering which road I should turn into. Many times when I'm driving in SF or LA (or Portland or etc.), I'm confused or thinking that many people would be confused about the road geometry. There are many roads with odd angles or obstructions or confusing signs or lane layouts, etc.

Just as one example in SF, there's a road that splits into one that goes above a tunnel and another that goes into the tunnel but both of them end up on the same road after the tunnel.

It's difficult to create "if then" statements to deal with all scenarios appropriately / smoothly / safely / efficiently.

Geary street has 2 intersections where turning traffic goes above the tunnel and through traffic goes into the tunnel and thus below the intersection. The idea is to keep through traffic moving.

 

[drtimhill]

Which is the crucible of HD maps. Its insane that people actually think that going into every intersection blind is an advantage.
Imagine having my memory wiped every time before i leave for work or take a drive. I would be lane hunting and all over the place like FSD Beta, reacting rather than anticipating.

You are conflating two different things: the car using HD maps and the car doing some amount of localized learning about known roads. Of course there is nothing wrong with using HD maps as a source of data, but it doesnt really solve many problems .. after all Waymo are using them but their cars are still loaded with sensors etc.

And what about road changes? If an intersection is altered, what is a car that relies exclusively on HD maps going to do? In a world of L5 cars it can't hand over to a human, and it's hardly acceptable for your commute car to suddenly be unable to drive you to work because of a road change, while waiting (perhaps for weeks) for an HD map update.

 

[powertoold]

Tesla is slowly solving the road geometry problem, as demonstrated by fewer disengagements. Tesla is simultaneously solving lane semantics issues. With every update, all their NNs improve, reducing disengagements.

I wonder if their goal is to overall reduce wheel / brake disengagements per mile by 50% with every update.

 

[BrerBear]

Finally got FSD on my 2019 Model S, 6 months before my lease ends. Yay!

Decided to try it out on a one mile drive home from the big mall here in San Jose, CA mostly down a major residential / business street.

Pros

• When pedestrians stepped into the street at the nearby garden, the car handled it gracefully.
• The turn it took onto my block was smooth.

Cons

• Three phantom braking events in a one mile drive. One was probably explained by the light at the nearby side street on the mall garage changing to red, possibly confusing the camera. The other two were inexplicable, and annoyed the nearby drivers who passed around me.
• When the road took a slight left curve, the car steered into the left turn lane instead of continuing on and I had to disengage to swerve out.
• As it approached my block turn, it moved very early into the turn lane, and apparently could not see the perpendicular pedestrian crosswalk barrier permanently constructed in the turn lane. If I had not intervened and taken control, this would have been a collision.

Overall… scary.

 

[thewishmaster]

Biggest (new) menace on 10.5 for me has been perpendicularly parked bicycles or motorcycles. Their VRU detection needs to take into account whether there is a human attached to the bicycle/motorcycle because currently it either takes a very wide line around them (no oncoming/nearby cars) or stops (cars nearby).

 

[EVNow]

One improvement I noticed - the car went into the middle middle lane and waited before turning into the stripmall. Happened to anyone else ?

I remember discussing this with 10.1 - the car wouldn't do it.

@Phlier

Oh - you are saying the car interprets the lines as non-crossable ? What do the lines look like .. you can probably find some image on the web and post here (or give the link of the google map with such markings). Will be interesting to see whether we have those marking and what it does here.

BTW, definitely send the feedback on this to fsdbeta.

ps :

Here is the standard 3 lanes with middle turn lane. My guess is its the same all over US. I'll check if the car handles this here in WA.

Pavement Markings Explained â How to Drive Safelyâ©

Learn what a broken yellow line, restricted lanes and other key pavement signs mean, to be able to identify safe and unsafe passing zones.

www.aarp.org

ps :

 

[aronth5]

Which is the crucible of HD maps. Its insane that people actually think that going into every intersection blind is an advantage.
Imagine having my memory wiped every time before i leave for work or take a drive. I would be lane hunting and all over the place like FSD Beta, reacting rather than anticipating.

A link to any postings that specifically state this position would be helpful since I don't recall seeing any. Where people are sometimes misinformed is thinking their car is learning on the release they are running when they repeat the same drive over and over. (assuming no map update)

 

[Phlier]

One improvement I noticed - the car went into the middle middle lane and waited before turning into the stripmall. Happened to anyone else ?

I remember discussing this with 10.1 - the car wouldn't do it.

@Phlier

I haven't tried that scenario since 10.3.1.

I've only allowed FSD to turn left at traffic signal controlled intersections for the last two versions, with varying degrees of success.

I'll give it a shot a few times today and see what happens.

 

[Twiglett]

@Silenus136 It is horrible in LA. Undrivable really for me. Much easier in Palm Springs where there is more wide open space and less aggressive drivers all around you. That being said, take note of your GPS location. Zoom in to where your car is on the screen. Are you directly on the road where you should be, or is your GPS location off? I noticed that my car is driving to the right or left of the road through buildings. Sometimes 1/2 block away. When that happens FSD Beta is undrivable. When I recalibrate cameras (which only lasts a short time) it is better driving. But then it goes off again. I would be curious to know if your GPS is off as well. Here is an example. I was on WIlshire Blvd at the time and my car was showing 1/2 block away.

I've had exactly that issue. The car kept trying to turn left onto every side road, I didn't realize why until I turned off AP and looked at the Nav - it was showing me on the other side of town. I tried again and Nav would say "Turn left in 34th street", but that was over 2 miles away.
I sent a picture to support that showed me driving on the interstate, but the nav showed me almost 3 miles away on a side street.
Only started happening since getting FSD Beta

 

[pshifrin]

Had this fun experience turning left at a simple intersection with traffic lights. Car in front of me was also turning left but stopped waiting for traffic coming from the opposite direction. My car tried to go around the stopped car on their right and cut them off to make the left?

 

[EVNow]

Had this fun experience turning left at a simple intersection with traffic lights. Car in front of me was also turning left but stopped waiting for traffic coming from the opposite direction. My car tried to go around the stopped car on their right and cut them off to make the left?

View attachment 738708

All this in "Chill" mode I guess ?

In aggressive mode - it would push the car in front away and then turn.

BTW, today in a school zone - when waiting for traffic to clear, the car wanted to cross the yellow line & go on the left hand side.

 

[CharleyBC]

VRU

It was probably defined 2376 posts ago, but what does VRU mean? It shows up in this thread frequently. Thanks!

 

[EVNow]

It was probably defined 2376 posts ago, but what does VRU mean? It shows up in this thread frequently. Thanks!

Vulnerable Road User - pedestrians, bikes ...

 

[Oil Freedom]

I’m looking forward to FSD being tolerant and understanding when other drivers make mistakes or are confused, which would be our local flavor (or so we want to believe)

Since FSD is risk averse, it will always be effectively tolerant and understanding -- because its prime directive is to avoid damage and injury. So, cars driven by meat computers will always be able to bully those driven by silicon computers.

 

[Oil Freedom]

Had this fun experience turning left at a simple intersection with traffic lights. Car in front of me was also turning left but stopped waiting for traffic coming from the opposite direction. My car tried to go around the stopped car on their right and cut them off to make the left?

Yeah, the FSD Beta isn't yet good at telling the difference between a parked car and a lead car waiting for a traffic light to change.