Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[thewishmaster]

I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about how a particular path is chosen when you navigate to a destination, because I've had some inconsistencies and curiosities. There is one route I travel almost every morning and afternoon and I nearly always have to disengage at one point, because it wants to take me on a route that requires a U-turn and it NEVER does the U-turn properly. The path it wants to take isn't shorter or faster, but it's not longer either. To my surprise today, it chose the path I always manually drive and I was just wondering why it chose a different path today. Does it actually learn or was this just a fluke? This was probably the 5th time I've traveled this path on 10.3.1 but the first time it's chosen the "correct" route. There are some other areas where the route it's chosen is just bizarre, but not entirely wrong. These usually are related to shopping areas, though, and I guess it really doesn't do well with parking lots. It's just picked some random side streets and unnamed roads rather than taking a standard, direct path.

Maybe some subtle traffic conditions? I've gotten 3 different routes so far on the same morning drive; today for some reason it also chose the route I would normally choose myself.

 

[tpatana]

I see someone got 36.5.5. Is that non-FSD update?

 

[TripleG3]

Maybe some subtle traffic conditions? I've gotten 3 different routes so far on the same morning drive; today for some reason it also chose the route I would normally choose myself.

Ah, yeah, that's definitely an idea. I wasn't sure if it uses traffic data. I certainly wouldn't rule it out, but I personally didn't notice anything different about the traffic there this morning. I actually had to drive it again today already and it chose the usual path where it needs to do a U-turn at the end. >_<

 

[jebinc]

No - its not the computer or NN. Its the planning code.

Round-abouts (esp, single lane) are actually very easy. Easier than 4 way stops. You have to just look to your left and make sure there is noone coming. Its just a simple unprotected right turn.

I was referring to the overall jerkiness experience, not just roundabouts. Slow to process all that's going on around it.

 

[mxnym]

I see someone got 36.5.5. Is that non-FSD update?

Seems unlikely to be FSD update...
#53

 

[kizamybute']

You're having almost the same experience as me.

I have experienced some smooth turns though.

The weird random mini phantom braking events are the most annoying to me and probably the car behind me.

The car had a seizure when I enabled FSD at a stop sign when it had to turn. It was terrible. It was turning left and right with major shaking of the steering wheel.

I'm sending lots of snapshots so hopefully it gets resolved eventually.

I'm disengaging often when a car behind me gets close for the same reason as you.

I also find it useful in streets when going straight. No confirming at green lights with no lead car is nice.

Day 3 observations:

I am mostly driving around the Burbank-San Gabriel area. I would not be so confident in downtown LA or Hollywood/weHo with fsd.

• Turning jerkiness: haven’t experienced a smooth turn yet. There is always at least 1 adjustments while mid turn. Even starting the turn has some hesitation or adjustment that throws off the smooth senses. Definitely an aggressive turner.
• Turning onto a freeway on-ramp has to be the scariest thing for me. Once it completes the turn, it will go full speed to 65mph, lol. Nice touch that it will change lanes into the freeway for me. I have NoA set to confirm lane changes.
• Phantom slowdowns: lots of instances where the car will let off the throttle or quickly pump the brakes for 1-2mph speed reduction. It’s weird. But, it seems to be consistently done in the same locations so I can cancel out the worst offenders by manually pressing on the accelerator.
• Random lane changes: yea this one is weird. Car will change lanes into non optimal lane a mile before but also initiate the lane change in the intersection sometimes.
• Half my disengagements are from me not wanting to piss the car behind me off: slowdown at wrong time, hesitating at a turn, etc.
• I’m starting to find the usefulness of fsd on the streets by knowing it’s limitations. Much like AP on the freeways, it has its flaws and i will take control when I need to. In fsd city streets case, it might be when it’s about to take a turn. It’ll get me 90% of the way there. The added abilities to route around cars, react to other cars, better stoplight detection, make driving on main roads pretty useful (roads with speeds >35mph) until it gets to a turn (then I may take over depending on traffic density)

Ditto on the above.

The other thing, for me at least. it always wants to turn directly in front of oncoming cars for left and right turns that do not have a green arrow.

Residential streets, always wants to drive smack down the middle of the road rather than keeping to the right side so other cars can go by in the opposite direction. Have mostly eliminated using it on residential streets for this reason.

And hardly ever use it if cars are close behind, being courteous to other drivers on the road.

I constantly use the accelerator pedal to adjust its choices for lane changes, and such.

 

[Wingsy]

Maybe some subtle traffic conditions? I've gotten 3 different routes so far on the same morning drive; today for some reason it also chose the route I would normally choose myself.

Not only traffic data but also possibly road conditions. On my way home, close to home, I make a right onto a severely damaged road. It had been routing me thru this, but starting a couple weeks ago it now routes me around the damage, adding about 1 block of extra driving to the route.

 

[Phlier]

I was referring to the overall jerkiness experience, not just roundabouts. Slow to process all that's going on around it.

Long ago, there was some footage of a guy that had root access to his car. It showed data labeling and also processor usage. I'm not sure what hardware version he was on, it was so long ago. It could've been HW2.5 even. I'm not talking about GreenTheOnly's work, this was a different guy. Footage was from Europe somewhere.

But it was interesting how often the CPU was maxed out at 100%.

I'm hoping that was HW 2.5.

I first saw the video just around the time that I took delivery of my car (August 2019), and I believe that they didn't finish using up all the 2.5 hardware until March of that year.

But who knows what's changed since then? I think some of the procedural code that took a lot of cpu time has been replaced with NN stuff since that old vid, and I think that NN requires less cpu time than procedural code? Hopefully one of our software guys will inject some knowledge here....

Wonder if I happened to save a bookmark to that old video... gonna go look around a bit.

 

[GargantulaKon]

Ditto on the above.

The other thing, for me at least. it always wants to turn directly in front of oncoming cars for left and right turns that do not have a green arrow.

Residential streets, always wants to drive smack down the middle of the road rather than keeping to the right side so other cars can go by in the opposite direction. Have mostly eliminated using it on residential streets for this reason.

And hardly ever use it if cars are close behind, being courteous to other drivers on the road.

I constantly use the accelerator pedal to adjust its choices for lane changes, and such.

I have the same issue for residential streets. It tries to drive in the middle of the street. Have you tried taking a left on residential streets with FSD beta? It totally hogs the other opposing lane when turning. It's so dangerous if a car is coming. I know that a lot of people drive that way by cutting the corner, but I don't want to do that. I think it makes you look like an aggressive and bad driver.

I think the way the FSD beta drives is taking the average of how most Tesla people drive in my area. I don't drive like most people in my area, I drive more defensively. I'm always trying to predict a worst case scenario. I drive pretty far away from other cars. I think the following distance of 7 is too close for me and I wish I could extend it to 10. I slow down when going around blind corners and when cresting hills. I live near Amish country and there could be a buggy on the other side. I wonder if that is why the car sometimes slows down when on FSD beta while driving on hilly road. I don't drive as cautiously as a 100 safety score though. Now that's being too cautious.

 

[d21mike]

Are any of the Freeway AP NOA (old code) settings used by the New FSD Beta for streets? Like with NOA you can say allow me to confirm lane changes. I would prefer the car NOT change lanes unless it needs to for routing purposes. I have it on Chill but it changes lanes for no reason. I have had it multiple times move to the right lane and speed up passing cars in the second lane. Then comes upon a park car in that right lane and has to quickly get back. I just prefer it would not do that unless I ask it too by putting on the blinker.

 

[mcorf]

Another issue I had today was when stopping at an intersection, the car creeps slowly for better visibility but it kept creeping forward until my front end was in the middle of the road. I let it go because there was no traffic coming in either direction, but if there was it would’ve hit my front end.

 

[JulienW]

A little OT but Remote Sentry Mode is live now in 36.8. I'm sure that is a NONBeta version. Beta users have always lagged behind in features released. I sure hope that has changed and we get a 36.8.x Beta next week with 10.4. Really like the convince of viewing the clips on my iPhone.

Tesla launches remote sentry mode live view as new premium connectivity feature

Tesla has released a new software update launching the promised remote sentry mode live view from its mobile app. It’s...

electrek.co

 

[Phlier]

I have the same issue for residential streets. It tries to drive in the middle of the street. Have you tried taking a left on residential streets with FSD beta? It totally hogs the other opposing lane when turning. It's so dangerous if a car is coming. I know that a lot of people drive that way by cutting the corner, but I don't want to do that. I think it makes you look like an aggressive and bad driver.

I think the way the FSD beta drives is taking the average of how most Tesla people drive in my area. I don't drive like most people in my area, I drive more defensively. I'm always trying to predict a worst case scenario. I drive pretty far away from other cars. I think the following distance of 7 is too close for me and I wish I could extend it to 10. I slow down when going around blind corners and when cresting hills. I live near Amish country and there could be a buggy on the other side. I wonder if that is why the car sometimes slows down when on FSD beta while driving on hilly road. I don't drive as cautiously as a 100 safety score though. Now that's being too cautious.

It's interesting to see the guys that just now got FSD report on their experiences so far; they're reporting pretty much exactly what us "old timers" (that got the software two weeks ago! ) said when we posted our initial experiences.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying (at all) that having people post their experiences that repeat what has already been said is a bad thing; quite the opposite, really. A bunch of guys reporting the same experiences about what's wrong, what's missing, and what needs work is a good thing.

And Tesla really needs to train the AI what a buggy is... yikes.

And I'm now having the same problem with follow distance 7 tailgating the preceding car. At up to about 30 mph, the follow distance is a bit too close, but by the time you get up to 40 or so, it's getting quite close, and at 50+ it's not just rude, it's unsafe.

It does increase the follow distance a little bit as you get going faster, but not nearly as much as it used to. It's so close that I don't even dare try to see what would happen if I set the follow distance lower than 7.

I'm hoping they'll prioritize this for the next release. You guys that are experiencing this issue, make sure you let Tesla know about it?

The only work around that I've found so far is to set the speed to something below the speed of the car you're following to open up a gap. Not ideal, but at least it works for now.

 

[EVNow]

I was referring to the overall jerkiness experience, not just roundabouts. Slow to process all that's going on around it.

That could be NN related - but still my guess is the planner is the least mature of the FSD stack.

ps : Ofcourse, we'll always end up with whether procedural code for planner can ever get to proper driving or whether they need end-to-end NN.

 

[tpatana]

Are any of the Freeway AP NOA (old code) settings used by the New FSD Beta for streets? Like with NOA you can say allow me to confirm lane changes. I would prefer the car NOT change lanes unless it needs to for routing purposes. I have it on Chill but it changes lanes for no reason. I have had it multiple times move to the right lane and speed up passing cars in the second lane. Then comes upon a park car in that right lane and has to quickly get back. I just prefer it would not do that unless I ask it too by putting on the blinker.

I would like this. Basically my preferred would be:

Make lane changes on surface roads only if:
-it is mandatory for incoming intersection
-user initiates with blinker

Otherwise stay on lane and keep going.

 

[GargantulaKon]

Are any of the Freeway AP NOA (old code) settings used by the New FSD Beta for streets? Like with NOA you can say allow me to confirm lane changes. I would prefer the car NOT change lanes unless it needs to for routing purposes. I have it on Chill but it changes lanes for no reason. I have had it multiple times move to the right lane and speed up passing cars in the second lane. Then comes upon a park car in that right lane and has to quickly get back. I just prefer it would not do that unless I ask it too by putting on the blinker.

Yeah, I hope in the future we can change different options with how the FSD behaves like there is for navigate on autopilot now. I feel like the profiles are a good start, but they don't seem to be actually working. For example, I'm using the Chill profile, but it's still rolling through stop signs.

 

[GargantulaKon]

It's interesting to see the guys that just now got FSD report on their experiences so far; they're reporting pretty much exactly what us "old timers" (that got the software two weeks ago! ) said when we posted our initial experiences.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying (at all) that having people post their experiences that repeat what has already been said is a bad thing; quite the opposite, really. A bunch of guys reporting the same experiences about what's wrong, what's missing, and what needs work is a good thing.

And Tesla really needs to train the AI what a buggy is... yikes.

And I'm now having the same problem with follow distance 7 tailgating the preceding car. At up to about 30 mph, the follow distance is a bit too close, but by the time you get up to 40 or so, it's getting quite close, and at 50+ it's not just rude, it's unsafe.

It does increase the follow distance a little bit as you get going faster, but not nearly as much as it used to. It's so close that I don't even dare try to see what would happen if I set the follow distance lower than 7.

I'm hoping they'll prioritize this for the next release. You guys that are experiencing this issue, make sure you let Tesla know about it?

The only work around that I've found so far is to set the speed to something below the speed of the car you're following to open up a gap. Not ideal, but at least it works for now.

Yeah, the car has no idea what an Amish buggy is and wants to just ram it right now. I've only tried it once though, I'll try it again later.

I do send snapshots to Tesla and have even emailed the FSD beta email address, but I haven't heard anything back.

I do the same trick as you to have a father following distance. I have to constantly play with the scroll wheel. I have a feeling I'm going to break the scroll wheel prematurely from how much I use it.

 

[jabloomf1230]

I used it yesterday and I can tell you it doesn’t slow down or stop at the turnpike toll booths. If I didn’t brake I would of went right through the closed gate.

Gate recognition is supposed to be added in version 10.4.

 

[willow_hiller]

10.4 planned for next week Friday, will start to include those with 98 safety scores:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1453475032253014019

 

[thewishmaster]

Are any of the Freeway AP NOA (old code) settings used by the New FSD Beta for streets? Like with NOA you can say allow me to confirm lane changes. I would prefer the car NOT change lanes unless it needs to for routing purposes. I have it on Chill but it changes lanes for no reason. I have had it multiple times move to the right lane and speed up passing cars in the second lane. Then comes upon a park car in that right lane and has to quickly get back. I just prefer it would not do that unless I ask it too by putting on the blinker.

Nope.... I keep forgetting to turn on unconfirmed lane changes for NoA so whenever FSD Beta takes me on the freeway I need to confirm the changes again. But you can also make manual changes with the blinker action as usual, and cancel planned lane changes in the city by tapping the "Lane change soon" or whatever message if you get it in time.

I haven't been brave enough to see what happens if you prevent it from making a lane change away from a turn lane and the route doesn't reroute you to take the left turn (no proactive rerouting). Had that this morning, left turn lane goes left, lane going straight only has 1 narrow lane past the intersection, I forced it to stay left because I wanted to make the left turn. I ended up disengaging because the planner didn't appear to take the left turn into account and I didn't want to see what happens if it tries to negotiate going straight with all the other cars