I'm a fan, and I am curious, but I expected better than this.
Exactly right. Its just highly disappointing as a shareholder.
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New FSD beta testers (June 2022) - First experiences
- Thread starter Hoss2626
- Start date
I'm a fan, and I am curious, but I expected better than this.
Exactly right. Its just highly disappointing as a shareholder.
My bad for not being fully up to speed on everyone's experiences before I experienced it personally. I guess I am just not cool enough.
No, that's not the point. Your post was about disappointment at the beta not behaving the way you wanted/expected it to. But what was your expectation based on? Certainly not Elon's wildly optimistic posts; who pays attention to those apart from the SEC? And, as you note, not by reading the discussions in this forum.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Which makes my point. If you set your expectations on random stuff you see on YouTube (and Chris seems to be going down the "click bait" route more and more these days) then of course you are going to be disappointed.
The point is the OP was implying that FSD beta should have been better than he found it. If that was based on official Tesla information, then he has a right to be disappointed and complain, but if he just based his expectations on 3rd party information (or even his own wishes), then what was wrong wasn't FSD beta but his inflated expectations.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
"The person in the driver's seat is only there for legal reasons"
Seems deceptive not to say that the biggest legal reason is that negligent homicide is illegal in all 50 states...
<iframe title="vimeo-player" src="Autopilot Full Self-Driving Hardware (Neighborhood Long) from Tesla on Vimeo" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Tesla said they would have literal robotaxis on the road a couple years ago and you're dragging a guy for thinking that FSD Beta would be closer to that than it is.
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GalacticHero
M3-AWD+
I haven't seen any official statement on this, but the general opinion seems to be that even with FSD Beta, when the car is on the freeway it is using the same Navigate on Autopilot as a non-Beta car. It certainly switches to the NoAP visualizer. I've seen two different situations though, where the behavior is different now.
First, on my regular work commute there is one cloverleaf freeway interchange that is extremely tight. Previously, when I got near it I would get a message like "Navigation Ends in 500 feet. Unsupported maneuver." It would disengage navigation, I'd take the exit, then reengage on the new freeway. Now, it doesn't disengage, but attempts-* the exit itself. Note that it doesn't switch to Beta mode, at least, the visualizer does not change.
Secondly, now when there is a speed limit change it automatically changes the target speed to the new speed limit. Previously, I'd see it detect the road speed limit, but would have to change the target speed myself. I confirmed that this morning while I have a loaner M3 while Service has mine. It behaves as I remember mine doing pre-Beta: the speed change must be done by the driver.
* - I put "attempts" because I always have to prevent it from finishing the merge. The cloverleaf ends at a merge lane that lets you get back to speed then join traffic. It always tries to clip the apex of the entrance, skipping the merge lane, and driving straight into the traffic lane, seeming oblivious to the traffic about to mow over it. This is always during the morning commute. If I'm ever headed that way when there isn't a boatload of oncoming traffic I'll let it finish it's maneuver and see just what it does.
First, on my regular work commute there is one cloverleaf freeway interchange that is extremely tight. Previously, when I got near it I would get a message like "Navigation Ends in 500 feet. Unsupported maneuver." It would disengage navigation, I'd take the exit, then reengage on the new freeway. Now, it doesn't disengage, but attempts-* the exit itself. Note that it doesn't switch to Beta mode, at least, the visualizer does not change.
Secondly, now when there is a speed limit change it automatically changes the target speed to the new speed limit. Previously, I'd see it detect the road speed limit, but would have to change the target speed myself. I confirmed that this morning while I have a loaner M3 while Service has mine. It behaves as I remember mine doing pre-Beta: the speed change must be done by the driver.
* - I put "attempts" because I always have to prevent it from finishing the merge. The cloverleaf ends at a merge lane that lets you get back to speed then join traffic. It always tries to clip the apex of the entrance, skipping the merge lane, and driving straight into the traffic lane, seeming oblivious to the traffic about to mow over it. This is always during the morning commute. If I'm ever headed that way when there isn't a boatload of oncoming traffic I'll let it finish it's maneuver and see just what it does.
I have the same observation. There is a reversible express lane in the interstate here and it's 75mph limit. When not in express lane, it should be between 65-75mph limit. It probably mistaken when it read the sign when it passes by. I have seen behavior where it changes speed automatically even when I adjusted it before.
I've speculated that Tesla disabled the NoA related warnings including those for when NoA approaches a traffic light or stop sign when taking a freeway exit to a city street. But this also happened to disable other NoA warnings such as those for "unsupported maneuvers" without actually changing the driving behavior (as at least for the intended change, FSD Beta would take over for city streets). Before FSD Beta (and when toggling off FSD Beta), I would see that message for a very short on-ramp/off-ramp weave.
If it is a "bug" that the warning is not shown, it's probably pretty low priority to fix as it's been this way for many months with the expectation of FSD Beta 11 single stack better handling these maneuvers.
GalacticHero
M3-AWD+
Following up: The nags were attention nags, not hand on wheel nags. The camera was defective. Service replaced it under warranty and adjusted my headliner which was partially blocking the camera.
GalacticHero
M3-AWD+
So far, so good, after the cabin camera repairs. No more "Cabin camera unavailable" and no more never-ending streams of "pay attention" warnings.
On a different train of thought, I've had several instances of a problem I've seen others mention: turns the wrong way. On the way to work this morning I was coming up to the freeway entrances. The nav correctly stated the need to take the exit on the right. At the same time the turn signal came on, which I didn't pay close attention to, as I was thinking it was about to take the right-hand exit the nav just mentioned. Then I felt the steering wheel going left and steered it back right, noting the left blinkers were on. The car behind me must have thought I was severely short on caffeine. BTW this was from a city street to freeway so was an FSD maneuver. How is it so fundamentally confused about the road situation as to do this?
Another thing it does all the time that I have not seen mentioned is the lane changes in the middle of an intersection. I was going to claim it's not legal, but I actually looked it up and it's just ill-advised, unless it's over solid whites, then it is illegal. So, I could see an AI potentially being able to check the positioning and possible moves of all the other cars and know that it was safe to do this. However, given the poor situational awareness the FSD Beta is demonstrating (see the above paragraph) I don't think it should be attempting these sorts of lane changes (yet).
On a different train of thought, I've had several instances of a problem I've seen others mention: turns the wrong way. On the way to work this morning I was coming up to the freeway entrances. The nav correctly stated the need to take the exit on the right. At the same time the turn signal came on, which I didn't pay close attention to, as I was thinking it was about to take the right-hand exit the nav just mentioned. Then I felt the steering wheel going left and steered it back right, noting the left blinkers were on. The car behind me must have thought I was severely short on caffeine. BTW this was from a city street to freeway so was an FSD maneuver. How is it so fundamentally confused about the road situation as to do this?
Another thing it does all the time that I have not seen mentioned is the lane changes in the middle of an intersection. I was going to claim it's not legal, but I actually looked it up and it's just ill-advised, unless it's over solid whites, then it is illegal. So, I could see an AI potentially being able to check the positioning and possible moves of all the other cars and know that it was safe to do this. However, given the poor situational awareness the FSD Beta is demonstrating (see the above paragraph) I don't think it should be attempting these sorts of lane changes (yet).
I know this is not a FSD issue but a NOA one so bear with me. I initiated NOA and I was in the middle lane of a three lane highway. This was 10:30 at night so there was no traffic and the highway was straight. I set my speed to 110 km/h on a 100 km/h highway. There was a going to be a split in the highway about 14km away and I was supposed to follow to the right at that time. For some unknown reason, I kept getting bombarded with messages to change to the left hand lane to follow the route. I kept canceling the lane change suggestion but of course, it kept popping up. There were no cars around me anyways so I was quite happy to just keep trucking along in the middle lane and I don't think I was fast enough to drive in the left lane. But the constant badgering to change lanes was super frustrating! I did a ton of reports with the camera icon!!
GalacticHero
M3-AWD+
When NoAP has a dumb suggestion I have started turning it off for awhile, then tapping it back on later.
It did the same thing to me on the return trip too. Shutting off and restarting didn’t make the dumb suggestions go away. I just kept mashing the camera icon…LOL
gregsly
Member
Hey all, I got FSD Beta on June 7th (finally!).
I have to say that there are several ways that FSD Beta does not do well here in Minneapolis.
1) There are a lot of onramps/offramps with short but wide merging areas and FSD does NOT like them at all, intervention every time.
2) We have parallel parking along city streets that is delineated by a solid white line, and FSD tries to use that area as a driving lane any time it isn't full of cars.
3) We have many places where the painted lines are worn off or very faint from snow-plows and general harsh weather.
4) And there are a ton of places where the city just doesn't line up the lanes on each side of an intersection. It is tricky for people and still impossible for FSD.
5) And of course there is so much construction here and FSD often can't navigate those zones.
Other than that though, I've seen some good stuff. I find the whole process fascinating and can't wait for the next round of improvements!
I have to say that there are several ways that FSD Beta does not do well here in Minneapolis.
1) There are a lot of onramps/offramps with short but wide merging areas and FSD does NOT like them at all, intervention every time.
2) We have parallel parking along city streets that is delineated by a solid white line, and FSD tries to use that area as a driving lane any time it isn't full of cars.
3) We have many places where the painted lines are worn off or very faint from snow-plows and general harsh weather.
4) And there are a ton of places where the city just doesn't line up the lanes on each side of an intersection. It is tricky for people and still impossible for FSD.
5) And of course there is so much construction here and FSD often can't navigate those zones.
Other than that though, I've seen some good stuff. I find the whole process fascinating and can't wait for the next round of improvements!
From the video's I've seen (especially from Chris), this seems to be the norm for those states with winter weather. Poor roadways, with lots of potholes from snow/ice, with lane markers that have been grinded away by salt, are definitely a challenge for FSD Beta. I saw a video of someone complaining that FSD Beta could not handle snow on the ground because it couldn't see any lane markings - or the curb for the matter. It still actually impressed me that 50-75% of the time it was able to guess where the curb was even though it was all just a white mess. But it disengaged itself repeatedly. I don't know how a human can even drive in that, without very good memory of where the lanes are. It's going to be awhile before an ADAS or ADS system will drive in those conditions.
For faded/missing lane markers on otherwise dry roads, the only option the system has is to treat it like an unmarked road and stay to the right as best it can. But how does it know where the left/right turn lanes are if the markers are poor or missing? This would be an interesting HD Maps discussion - could HD Maps allow the car to drive when the markings are missing?
After many more long day drives I think I should get driver ed + hazard pay.
FSDb is a rude driver:
-follows too close (unless in Boston, then not close enough)
-signals too late
-creeps into oncomming traffic
-swings right to turn left
-brakes for no apparent reason
-bolts into intersections
-drives in the middle of unmarked roads
-mostly ignores passing zone lanes
-tries to pass school buses
-darts around in merge zones
-rides on the sidewalk
FSDb does not like supervision:
-does not slow down when told
-swings the yoke around, hitting hands while taunting to hold on
FSDb is a rude driver:
-follows too close (unless in Boston, then not close enough)
-signals too late
-creeps into oncomming traffic
-swings right to turn left
-brakes for no apparent reason
-bolts into intersections
-drives in the middle of unmarked roads
-mostly ignores passing zone lanes
-tries to pass school buses
-darts around in merge zones
-rides on the sidewalk
FSDb does not like supervision:
-does not slow down when told
-swings the yoke around, hitting hands while taunting to hold on
How it happens? I can slow down with the stalk on my MS (if it sees speed sign then it will switch back). It’s crazy, on main road driving 45 mph, turned into my neighborhood and continue at 45mph, it should be 20! Obviously it doesn’t know the differences, so it just continue with the previous speed until it finds another sign which is impossible because there is none. I tried to slow down to 30 before or at immediately after the turn. Anyway, it gives up as soon as it sees other cars, never once arrived successfully at my front door which is just 8 - 10 houses down.
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