Opinion: Tesla should partner with another OEM for NACS or be forced into CCS someday.

CCS has been adopted, however shortsightedly, as the charging standard for North America. As all other manufacturers move forward with CCS ports in random, non-optimal locations over the years, Tesla may some day be forced to have CCS charging ports in their vehicles just as has happened in Europe.

We can hope and insist and be as certain as we'd like that this won't happen, but as legacy automakers and government all team up...there won't be much Tesla can do if a line is drawn in the sand and laws are passed.

I think it would be wise for Tesla to reach out to Ford for example(could be GM, or Dodge, whatever), and suggest a partnership where they standardize the charging port location on their new models to match Tesla's, and to implement Tesla's NACS plug. There would be a benefit to Tesla in terms of revenue generated from SC's, and a *massive* benefit to any OEM that can then claim full access to the largest, best, most reliable charging network in existence.

I don't see there being any HUGE downside to Tesla....no one manufacturer really has enough EV's on the road to move the needle all that much in terms of significantly clogging up SC locations. The upside for a Legacy OEM would be massive, and would most likely eliminate the possibility of the big three teaming up with government and forcing Tesla' hand with regards to CCS.

It's also easy enough to just toss a CCS adapter in with each car sold or make one available at low cost if desired. Tesla always has the option of excluding their busiest locations where extra traffic might cause congestion.

This would also support Tesla's objective of electrifying the world. I don't think this would significantly affect Tesla's sales, especially considering the limited production from Legacies for the foreseeable future. They could even team up with a smaller competitor like Mercedes or BMW.

Thoughts?

"Charging Tesla Model S" by jeffcooper86 is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[TesslaBull]

No. The NEVI standards are only available for CCS Type 1 connectors, though you can have a NACS as well that isn't funded by NEVI. (There are no provisions in the standards for any other connector to get NEVI funding.)

Then there are all of the other requirements that Supercharger stations don't currently meet. For example, location on a approved corridor ~50 miles from the closest NEVI station, minimum power of 150kW available at all times, free/open API access to current stall status, ability to use third party apps to start charging, etc...

Ah.. So the government said : "Hey Elon, you aren't going to get any money to help build out your SC network."

Elon Musk: hold my beer....."Hey Jim, lets talk"

 

[MP3Mike]

Ah.. So the government said : "Hey Elon, you aren't going to get any money to help build out your SC network."

Not really. Tesla could still get money, if they meet all of the NEVI requirements. (And no I don't think the MagicDock would be enough.)

 

[GSP]

Now that 2 manufacturers are using the NACS, doesn't that open up normal SC stations using NACS to federal funds?

3

GSP

 

[E90alex]

3

GSP

If you mean Aptera, they don’t really count since they have not produced any vehicles available for purchase yet.

 

[MyJoule]

We're very excited by this news- Hopefully the adapter won't cost so much as to make it a non-starter- Elon said it wouldn't be too expensive. We'll love it we already use an NACS to CCS adapter for our level 2 charging at home on our Lighting.

 

[TheHippo]

And it has happened: https://media.ford.com/content/ford...n-access-to-12-000-tesla-superchargers--.html

Ford EVs will have access to the entire Supercharger network next year, and after that Ford will start putting NACS receptacles in new vehicles.

I wonder how many billions Ford paid to have access to the Supercharger network.

 

[TheHippo]

I was browsing the Mustang Mach-E forums and mentioned that a manufacturer who embraces the Tesla plug and strikes a deal with Tesla to use their superchargers will gain a distinct advantage over all other non-Tesla EV's. I was surprised someone hadn't done so yet...whether Hyundai/Kia or Mercedes or whatever. Guess Ford beat everyone to the punch.

Glad to see I wasn't the only one having the same line of thought that I had in the OP. Wonder if this will cause a domino effect where now maybe Mercedes will follow suit. Then Volvo. At some point, it could turn the tide completely away from CCS while we still only have about 5% of the charging infrastructure in the country in place. Since no other manufacturer is aggressively expanding the charging network, would be great if CCS just fades into the past and NACS officially takes over.

I would happily grab a CCS/NACS adapter for our Kia Niro if it allowed full access to the SC network. I suspect that it will involve hardware and software capability in the vehicle to make it fully compatible with Tesla, hence why the 2025 time frame for Ford.

I don't think you understand.

Just putting an "NACS" port on your vehicle doesn't mean you have access to the Supercharger.

Ford most certainly paid to have access to the Supercharger.

 

[cruiserlarry]

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/05/25/ford-ev-customers-to-gain-access-to-12-000-tesla-superchargers--.html

Done.

 

[Yelobird]

And it has happened: https://media.ford.com/content/ford...n-access-to-12-000-tesla-superchargers--.html

Ford EVs will have access to the entire Supercharger network next year, and after that Ford will start putting NACS receptacles in new vehicles.

Actually 12k select chargers not all.

 

[Rocky_H]

Ford EVs will have access to the entire Supercharger network next year, and after that Ford will start putting NACS receptacles in new vehicles.

Actually 12k select chargers not all.

I see the hair being split. It's the "next year" part. The articles point out that in 2024, it's an interim point where Ford's vehicles still have the CCS port, so only some of the Supercharger stations will be enabled enough to provide that kind of connectivity (the 12,000 stations), like what has been rolling out in Europe for a few years and is now just starting in North America. But then for Ford's future vehicles with NACS, they will have access to the whole network, because the whole network does have the NACS plug.

 

[E90alex]

I see the hair being split. It's the "next year" part. The articles point out that in 2024, it's an interim point where Ford's vehicles still have the CCS port, so only some of the Supercharger stations will be enabled enough to provide that kind of connectivity (the 12,000 stations), like what has been rolling out in Europe for a few years and is now just starting in North America. But then for Ford's future vehicles with NACS, they will have access to the whole network, because the whole network does have the NACS plug.

Perhaps the incompatible ones are the urban superchargers? We’ll have to wait and see all the exact details when all this finally goes live.

 

[Rocky_H]

Perhaps the incompatible ones are the urban superchargers?

Well, I think it's almost all of them. You can count on your fingers right now how many locations in North America Tesla has retrofitted with the CCS plugs. It's the ones fitted with the Magic Dock.

US Superchargers open to CCS vehicles

I am a Tesla driver, what additional benefits do I get compared to other electric vehicles? As a Tesla driver you benefit from the seamless integration of charge post and vehicle, optimized route planning and battery pre-conditioning. With your Tesla, you’ll also have access to the lowest...

teslamotorsclub.com

So that seems to be the locations they are talking about and appears to be what they plan to expand to 12,000 locations by the end of 2024.

 

[E90alex]

Well, I think it's almost all of them. You can count on your fingers right now how many locations in North America Tesla has retrofitted with the CCS plugs. It's the ones fitted with the Magic Dock.

US Superchargers open to CCS vehicles

I am a Tesla driver, what additional benefits do I get compared to other electric vehicles? As a Tesla driver you benefit from the seamless integration of charge post and vehicle, optimized route planning and battery pre-conditioning. With your Tesla, you’ll also have access to the lowest...

teslamotorsclub.com

So that seems to be the locations they are talking about and appears to be what they plan to expand to 12,000 locations by the end of 2024.

Well the magic dock is a separate thing and that would not be Ford specific but instead be open to any CCS car.

There is supposed to be an adapter coming next year that will be just for Ford EVs to use any Supercharger (well just 12,000 of them apparently).

 

[MP3Mike]

But then for Ford's future vehicles with NACS, they will have access to the whole network, because the whole network does have the NACS plug.

I don't think we can assume that. Just because you have a NACS inlet doesn't mean you can use the Superchargers. (Look at Aptera.)

Perhaps the incompatible ones are the urban superchargers? We’ll have to wait and see all the exact details when all this finally goes live.

There aren't that many Urban Superchargers...

Well, I think it's almost all of them. You can count on your fingers right now how many locations in North America Tesla has retrofitted with the CCS plugs. It's the ones fitted with the Magic Dock.

US Superchargers open to CCS vehicles

I am a Tesla driver, what additional benefits do I get compared to other electric vehicles? As a Tesla driver you benefit from the seamless integration of charge post and vehicle, optimized route planning and battery pre-conditioning. With your Tesla, you’ll also have access to the lowest...

teslamotorsclub.com

So that seems to be the locations they are talking about and appears to be what they plan to expand to 12,000 locations by the end of 2024.

The MagicDock announcement said 3,500 chargers by the end of 2024. I highly doubt this announcement ups that to 12k.

This is what currently exists in North America:

So maybe they are only opening the V3 stalls. (And obviously they are adding more stalls every day, there will likely be at least another ~2k stalls by the end of the year.)

 

[E90alex]

So maybe they are only opening the V3 stalls. (And obviously they are adding more stalls every day, there will likely be at least another ~2k stalls by the end of the year.)

Possibly the V2 and older stalls were not made with CCS signaling/communication built in so they can’t support other vehicles.

If so Tesla needs to somehow better differentiate them and/or work with Ford to only show V3 stations in their cars.

 

[Rocky_H]

I don't think we can assume that. Just because you have a NACS inlet doesn't mean you can use the Superchargers. (Look at Aptera.)

I'm not assuming that. It is specifically what Ford and Tesla jointly announced:

Ford adopts Tesla charge port for future EVs, Supercharger access soon

Say farewell to CCS in Ford EVs. Next-generation models will have the familiar Tesla port built in, with charging at Tesla Supercharger stations requiring no adapter.

www.greencarreports.com

The MagicDock announcement said 3,500 chargers by the end of 2024. I highly doubt this announcement ups that to 12k.

This is the part I was guessing on. I'm not sure exactly how they are supposed to have access to these 12,000 Supercharger stalls they were talking about in 2024 before the Ford cars with NACS start coming out.

 

[MP3Mike]

I'm not assuming that. It is specifically what Ford and Tesla jointly announced:

No, they didn't. They said access to more than 12,000 Superchargers in North America. Tesla currently has almost 24,000 Superchargers in North America, and will have thousands more by 2024. So Ford customers are only going to get access to a portion of, about half?, the Supercharger network.

If they were getting access to the whole Supercharger network don't you think they would have used the 23,000 number instead of 12,000?

This is the part I was guessing on. I'm not sure exactly how they are supposed to have access to these 12,000 Supercharger stalls they were talking about in 2024 before the Ford cars with NACS start coming out.

That was covered in the announcement. Tesla has an adapter going into production early next year that will need to be used. And Jim said that Ford would be shipping one to every Ford EV purchaser:

And every 2026+ Ford with a NACS port will come with the adapter to use CCS chargers.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

No, they didn't. They said access to more than 12,000 Superchargers in North America. Tesla currently has almost 24,000 Superchargers in North America, and will have thousands more by 2024. So Ford customers are only going to get access to a portion of, about half?, the Supercharger network.

If they were getting access to the whole Supercharger network don't you think they would have used the 23,000 number instead of 12,000?


That was covered in the announcement. Tesla has an adapter going into production early next year that will need to be used. And Jim said that Ford would be shipping one to every Ford EV purchaser:

And every 2026+ Ford with a NACS port will come with the adapter to use CCS chargers.

According to Supercharge.info Tesla has 13,302 open v3 stalls in North America.. It's v3+ because v3+ can talk CCS.
But even if it's not protocol limitation, v2 are slower and less flexible, and tend to be smaller sites, so would be more likely to be impacted by additional cars with charge ports in different places. Just easier to keep them away.

 

[MP3Mike]

According to Supercharge.info Tesla has 13,302 open v3 stalls in North America.

And what's your point? That 13,302 is not the whole Supercharger network, it is a little more than half of it:

Maybe Ford customers will only have access to V3 sites. (Which is what I suggested earlier.)

 

[RayK]

There aren't that many Urban Superchargers...

Maybe not where you are but around here (San Jose/South Bay Area), there's quite a number of them. When I do use a Supercharger, it's near my home (just to the left of the "Alamitos" at the lower right corner of the map). They are marked with a green star: