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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Nope, thread title is still rumor. The response from Tesla posted does not they are reducing supercharging speeds as the car gets older (it does not mention age at all). It says the speed dropped to protect the battery, but we already know it does in certain conditions (for example extreme cold or hot conditions).
Also, there have been a fair bit of examples of much older cars which have not experienced any drop in speeds (some even had increase in speeds because of supercharger upgrades).
Did you miss the part where the battery spends 1200% more time (4 hours vs 20 minutes) at the slightly lower temperature
Nope. I think we are splitting hairs anyway. I agree that the difference is likely minimal under real world, practical conditions, but I think it's a jump to say that supercharging more often than L2 charging is better for the battery.
Have you actually monitored pack temperature on a consistent basis? I can tell you that the pack stays at 45 C for many hours after supercharging so it's not like it spends less time at elevated temperature.
I'm always driving right after supercharging and the pack temperature is just about the same before, during, and after supercharging, so supercharging is almost a non event. To add 50% SOC, the 20 minutes it takes to add keeps the pack right around the same temperature as if I was driving for those 20 minutes.
Now if it's cold, like 0C, then supercharging does raise the temperature during charging and then the temperature drops right back down within minutes to what it was before I started charging.
As most in here knows Tesla changed the battery chemistry when they introduced the 90 kWh battery. Now almost 2 years have gone by and some owners with high mileage, including myself, have experienced the SuC charge curve for 90 kWh batteries has changed while the “old” 70 and 85 kWh SuC charge curve remains more or less the same.
To prove the hypothesis that the max kW while supercharging the 90 kWh battery drops as the mileage increases I would like to collect some more data from other 90D owners besides the 4 I know of already to determine if there is a clear pattern.
If you drive a Tesla with a 90 kWh battery you can contribute to the analysis by entering data into this sheet next time you are supercharging and compare your numbers to other Tesla owners:
Tesla Supercharging Speeds
Please note there are two tabs in the Sheet - one for Imperial and another for Metric.
Background Story: I bought my TMS 90D as new back in December 2015 and now it has driven nearly 100.000 km. The best car I have ever had – absolutely love it. But somewhere around 60K km I noticed that the max kW I got at the supercharger had dropped – in the past it quickly went up around 115 kW and now I never go above 96 kW at any Supercharger (peak around SoC 50%) – and I have been at many. I drive approx. 220 miles 5-6 days a week and need to supercharge a bit every day (except during summertime) to get the 10-30% needed to get home without stressing the battery (try to stay within 10-90% SoC at all times). So getting a little “juice” really fast is important to me.
Asking fellow Tesla owners in the Danish forum showed that 2 other 90D owners with a high mileage were experiencing the same charge curve (the only ones with high mileage who responded) and yesterday an American Tesla owner has also shared some data pointing in the same direction.
I hope that more data will prove my hypothesis and put some pressure on Tesla to explain their reasoning - after all we are the ones having to spend more and more time at the SuC. I have had a dialog with Tesla about this issue but I was unable to get more specific information about the change in the charge curve besides that it was done intentionally to preserve the battery and I am not satisfied with that (please read and comment in thread [Rumor]Tesla is reducing speed of Supercharging as your Tesla gets older in case you want to learn or discuss more about this part).
To prove the hypothesis that the max kW while supercharging the 90 kWh battery drops as the mileage increases I would like to collect some more data from other 90D owners besides the 4 I know of already to determine if there is a clear pattern.
If you drive a Tesla with a 90 kWh battery you can contribute to the analysis by entering data into this sheet next time you are supercharging and compare your numbers to other Tesla owners:
Tesla Supercharging Speeds
Please note there are two tabs in the Sheet - one for Imperial and another for Metric.
Background Story: I bought my TMS 90D as new back in December 2015 and now it has driven nearly 100.000 km. The best car I have ever had – absolutely love it. But somewhere around 60K km I noticed that the max kW I got at the supercharger had dropped – in the past it quickly went up around 115 kW and now I never go above 96 kW at any Supercharger (peak around SoC 50%) – and I have been at many. I drive approx. 220 miles 5-6 days a week and need to supercharge a bit every day (except during summertime) to get the 10-30% needed to get home without stressing the battery (try to stay within 10-90% SoC at all times). So getting a little “juice” really fast is important to me.
Asking fellow Tesla owners in the Danish forum showed that 2 other 90D owners with a high mileage were experiencing the same charge curve (the only ones with high mileage who responded) and yesterday an American Tesla owner has also shared some data pointing in the same direction.
I hope that more data will prove my hypothesis and put some pressure on Tesla to explain their reasoning - after all we are the ones having to spend more and more time at the SuC. I have had a dialog with Tesla about this issue but I was unable to get more specific information about the change in the charge curve besides that it was done intentionally to preserve the battery and I am not satisfied with that (please read and comment in thread [Rumor]Tesla is reducing speed of Supercharging as your Tesla gets older in case you want to learn or discuss more about this part).
Now that I understand how you are reading the mail from Tesla I posted and your perception of it I realize there might be some more relevant information in the email reply I got from the Tesla Product Specialist when I asked for more details after the first email - although I didn't get the answers I was looking for.
Here it is after putting the danish text through Google Translate:
Hi Christian,
Must admit it's not exactly my area of expertise, and that the announcement will not be more accurate than the car that said limiting top speed of supercharging if supercharger too much. Again, it is something the car makes automatic because it has to protect the battery.
It is healthier for the battery and use the AC power. But think your focus here should be on how recently you actually seen 100kwh SUC and the top speed of Suc always only at the beginning of charging.
So the big importance has not. As I said, try and make the time test I wrote in the previous mail. 20% -80%.
and here a screen shot of the mail in danish
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Have attached a ZIP of 5 XLS / Excel files with my charging. They names of the files have the ODO miles in them.
I played a few minutes with how to arrange them in one spreadsheet so I could graph kW all of them but it was not clear to me how to easy line them up based on SOC which vary a little (ie. not all have detail lines of each SOC % some may skip two % at times, for example).
Maybe some Excel wizards can. I guess I could have extrapolated all the missing SOC where they skipped by two.
I played a few minutes with how to arrange them in one spreadsheet so I could graph kW all of them but it was not clear to me how to easy line them up based on SOC which vary a little (ie. not all have detail lines of each SOC % some may skip two % at times, for example).
Maybe some Excel wizards can. I guess I could have extrapolated all the missing SOC where they skipped by two.
The last post on this thread talks about a pair of failures which impacted supercharger speed. Perhaps there are some cars with marginal components which are now impacting charge performance.
Model S Cold Weather Charging
Model S Cold Weather Charging
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Have attached a ZIP of 5 XLS / Excel files with my charging. They names of the files have the ODO miles in them.
I played a few minutes with how to arrange them in one spreadsheet so I could graph kW all of them but it was not clear to me how to easy line them up based on SOC which vary a little (ie. not all have detail lines of each SOC % some may skip two % at times, for example).
Maybe some Excel wizards can. I guess I could have extrapolated all the missing SOC where they skipped by two.
jeffro01
Active Member
So one thread wasn't enough? You now need two of them?
Jeff
Jeff
That's why you got the backlash. You didn't initiate a scientific investigation, you investigated a witch hunt to basically ferret out what you feel is unacceptable conduct. Not to mention that you preemptively dismissed all possible variables to the potential phenomenon but the one you want to see.
If Tesla is purposely reducing supercharging speeds on some models because of vehicle age/millage--which is your thesis--I reject your assertion that Tesla changing your car after purchase is "unacceptable". Tesla changes your car every time they update the software.
As already noted above, It's very possible that the Tesla person was trying to describe something else to you that they don't really understand, like the supercharging taper. I'm not Danish, so there could be something lost in translation, but I didn't get anything about vehicle age/mileage from the things you've posted.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
Tesla's power limit is much worse. My S with 12k miles has had its power reduced by 35 HP already. No ICE car would have lost that much, that quickly. They screwed up the design and don't want to pay for warranty claims.
hockeythug
Active Member
Wouldn't surprise me with Tesla's history of cover ups.
I have received a few more numbers from fellow 90D owners and asked around. Fact is I have yet to see a Tesla 90D owner with more than 40.000 miles on the odometer who can charge at the SuC with a peak above 100 kW (is somewhere between 115-120 kW when new). Please help me finding one to prove me wrong.
KrenGrl
Banned
ODE90D, I think it would help if you can list your sources, as the information is too vague. If it were a court of law, the information would be tossed out as "hearsay" when quoting other people without them validating the info. Having sources would give more credibility to the info.
Example "Some Tesla employees have stated this is a sort of "punishment" for supercharging too often" from one of your postings, borders along the lines of a conspiracy theory. It's a bit difficult for me to think one or more Tesla employees would actually say that about their company or even have that level of knowledge about what is going on. Who are the "some employees?" And when Tesla told you... who specifically at Tesla told you and where are they?
If others are looking at the same things I see, then they wonder why does someone who signed up a year ago on the forum suddenly come in during the last 60 days and have all 13 of their postings be about suspicious behavior of Tesla? Was there nothing about the Tesla worth talking about for a whole year?
Then when I look at your spreadsheet, I see that practically all of the member IDs you list are not here on the forum. Two are there, yet I wonder if it is really their data.
Do you see why people are doubtful of the posting?
Example "Some Tesla employees have stated this is a sort of "punishment" for supercharging too often" from one of your postings, borders along the lines of a conspiracy theory. It's a bit difficult for me to think one or more Tesla employees would actually say that about their company or even have that level of knowledge about what is going on. Who are the "some employees?" And when Tesla told you... who specifically at Tesla told you and where are they?
If others are looking at the same things I see, then they wonder why does someone who signed up a year ago on the forum suddenly come in during the last 60 days and have all 13 of their postings be about suspicious behavior of Tesla? Was there nothing about the Tesla worth talking about for a whole year?
Then when I look at your spreadsheet, I see that practically all of the member IDs you list are not here on the forum. Two are there, yet I wonder if it is really their data.
Do you see why people are doubtful of the posting?
scottf200
Well-Known Member
I did a charge just based on minutes charging and not trying to line up SOC %. These are similar trips I take.
I don't know if the entire premise of the thread is valid but prior to 5000 mi I was hitting 114 kW at this supercharger.
That's a pretty noisy set of data there. My first conclusion from those four charges is that it's possible Tesla has reduced the peak charging rate, and they also appear to have increased the middle of SoC charging rate. It looks like more area under the curve, which would mean faster charging overall even with the loss of peak power.
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