Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Droschke]

Understood I deleted my post.

The hilarious post was the one before you.

 

[BPeter]

He just said it would remove a lock on the last 10% of the battery. Did give it a name, just said I was being put on a list.

There are now two reports from owners who had failed their battery replaced and received their replacement with range clipped that was later restored.

This is very interesting. This suggests that the voltage limitation is being applied by the vehicle's VIN instead of detecting something in the battery and limiting voltage because of it. If that is the case, they know which batteries have an issue based on production data maybe.

And if they're able to OTA adjust the charge limit like this, it's not a software update, it's a config setting change in the car. It would be very interesting if someone were to root one of these cars, especially one of the ones who have had their range restored and pull some information from it, notably the internaldat Lunars/tesla as that seems to include comments showing the date and user who changed config values.

 

[DJRas]

Guy V said: ↑
"They have already shared that they are working on a resolution to address the batteries with Z condition which was unexpected."

No, THEY did not.

yes they did. Stop lying.

"Update: Tesla sent us the following response following the report:

“Delivering the best possible customer experience with the highest regard for safety has always been our priority, and we do not disregard either of these things as this complaint suggests. A very small percentage of owners of older Model S and Model X vehicles may have noticed a small reduction in range when charging to a maximum state of charge following a software update designed to improve battery longevity. As previously noted, we have been working to mitigate the impact on range for these owners and have been rolling out over-the-air updates to address this issue since last week.”
Tesla owner who saw range slashed by software update filed class action lawsuit - Electrek
.

You need to stop lying.
Just where in the quote from Tesla's response to the Electrek story does it mention condition Z?
Where does is say they are resolving any issue at all.
It statement just say they are mitigating the impact on range.
How does that resolve condition Z?

We clearly will never know what condition Z is. Jason will not say. Even under discovery at this lawsuit nobody will identify anything we can clearly recognize as condition Z.

 

[SmartElectric]

I have low degradation on my P85D (12 miles lost in 100K miles). I think I've done very well managing my degradation

You mean Tesla battery management, charging system and overall hardware and software engineering excellence managing your degradation right?

Your choices are to specify the maximum SOC to charge to, how often you supercharge
and other variables.

Whereas we just drive our 2013 Tesla S85, charge to 90% daily, 100% most weekends, supercharged hundreds of times and seen no degradation in 4 years. Not a single km in the past 4 years since we bought CPO from Tesla in 2015.

We bought used, the initial degradation of <3% was all under the original owner in 2.5 years.

So what have you actually done to control anything useful, the fact is that you and I both have low degradation, but while we don't do anything special to manage our Tesla, and rely on whatever Tesla does with OTA and it's expert engineering, you in contrast have avoided software updates and otherwise thwarted Tesla's opportunity to keep your car up to date with the best possible options for safety and reliability of your car.

I deal with this in my day job, we have customers in regions of the world that stay on 8 year old code rather than upgrading to the latest security and feature set. It's a way of thinking that keeps innovation and progress down. #sad

 

[Evoforce]

I'm in this thread because there may be a durability problem with some or more Tesla batteries. I am also a Nissan Leaf owner and I am sure some are tired of me talking about needed improvements of battery engineering (cooling) and longevity in that forum. Doesn't mean that I don't like my two Leafs or want to see Nissan bankrupt or discontinue electric vehicles. I want them to do better (because they can) and fix the main issue of short battery lifespan, rapid depreciation (battery related), greatly over inflated range estimates (GOM) and #rapidgate (battery cooling related). They have also had a battery lawsuit in their past and were not forthcoming with customers. I am hoping that Nissan will do better...

Now on to Tesla... #Batterygate, #Chargegate. Tesla is a much better vehicle than Leaf or anything currently on the market. Even with these problems. But that doesn't give Tesla a pass to do what they are doing here. Yep, look back at my posts, I believe a lot in electrifying vehicles and Tesla is my favorite thus far! I am an EV enthusiast. I have invested money in regards to this enthusiasm and believe that this is the right path.

There are many EV enthusiasts out there and many many more to come. It is us early adopters who believe it is a great idea/product that give a business a foothold to then mass produce. Early adopters often are instrumental in many aspects of the products. The great, the good, the bad and the ugly. It is a marriage of sorts. No marriage is perfect. Communication is a key element to things going more smoothly.

Tesla has downgraded some (as yet) unknown number of enthusiasts/customers and has seemingly tried to not communicate truthfully in writing to a few customers of why these affected batteries have been throttled. I say please stop hiding, skirting with us. Using the Press (after a lawsuit was filed) to publish ambiguities was only an attempt at damage control. Communication at (so many levels) and doing right by (your car enthusiast customers) is paramount. If these affected batteries do not represent the norm, tell us so, and replace them as abnormal/defective. It is time to be sorry and treat us better so we can kiss and make up.

 

[DaveBC]

you in contrast have avoided software updates and otherwise thwarted Tesla's opportunity to keep your car up to date with the best possible options for safety and reliability of your car.

You are mixing up forum members.

We are now going on 12 weeks since 2019.16.1.1 was released. There have been 5 updates that I have installed since then. None have done anything to address our problems.
They have not even said one real reason for this.
I still believe Tesla will do us right and fix it. They just need a BIG shove in the right direction.

I have been to the Service Center 3 times.
I have emailed customer support.
I have talked to mobile and phone support.
I have even tweeted Elon.

Al I am told is that this is "normal degradation" and won't be covered by warranty.
I have also been told that they MAY address this in a future software update.

To date there have been 7 (including one last night) updates over the last 12 weeks (I have installed them all hoping that they made a difference).
So far nothing.

I will not wait patiently for 3 more years until my warranty expires.

I do tend to believe it IS related to the fires and that there is a detected defect in my (our) batteries that present a fire danger.
I want someone other than Tesla to investigate the link to this update to the fires.
I want them to certify that my battery will not burn up in my garage.
AND IF my battery has a defect then it is NOT NORMAL DEGRADATION and should be replaced under warranty and NHTSA should issue a recall for ALL the affected owners. ONLY Tesla knows who they all are (and they DO know that).

 

[Evoforce]

They have done this as well for people who heavily use SCs, not to disincentivize them, but purportedly to protect the pack. I haven't run into throttling, but I understand the throttle is to 90kW from the ~103kW I'm getting now. That peak doesn't last long anyway, so I don't think it's much of a disincentive for me at this point.

No, it is random not tied to SC. The throttling is a time consuming issue on road trips. They have not been forthcoming to owners on this issue. I do not Supercharge a lot. But when I am on a trip and towing I do SC when I can. It will especially affect those who tow and those who lose range in cold climates.

 

[DJRas]

You mean Tesla battery management, charging system and overall hardware and software engineering excellence managing your degradation right?

Your choices are to specify the maximum SOC to charge to, how often you supercharge
and other variables.

Whereas we just drive our 2013 Tesla S85, charge to 90% daily, 100% most weekends, supercharged hundreds of times and seen no degradation in 4 years. Not a single km in the past 4 years since we bought CPO from Tesla in 2015.

We bought used, the initial degradation of <3% was all under the original owner in 2.5 years.

So what have you actually done to control anything useful, the fact is that you and I both have low degradation, but while we don't do anything special to manage our Tesla, and rely on whatever Tesla does with OTA and it's expert engineering, you in contrast have avoided software updates and otherwise thwarted Tesla's opportunity to keep your car up to date with the best possible options for safety and reliability of your car.

I deal with this in my day job, we have customers in regions of the world that stay on 8 year old code rather than upgrading to the latest security and feature set. It's a way of thinking that keeps innovation and progress down. #sad

You have completely misrepresented or misunderstood my 250 posts in this thread. I have explained the full history of my car, charging characteristics, daily use, etc multiple times.
My car was hit by the 12% further loss of range due to the software updates 2019.16.x. I have not avoided ANY software updates EVER. I have posted the lack of changes and eventual marginal improvement with all 9 updates between May 13 and today.

 

[DJRas]

For everyone AFFECTED by this issue you can enter your information directly here:

A New Type of Chinese Lawyer — Law Offices of Edward C. Chen

We have about 60 names so far.

 

[qwk]

You mean Tesla battery management, charging system and overall hardware and software engineering excellence managing your degradation right?

Your choices are to specify the maximum SOC to charge to, how often you supercharge
and other variables.

Whereas we just drive our 2013 Tesla S85, charge to 90% daily, 100% most weekends, supercharged hundreds of times and seen no degradation in 4 years. Not a single km in the past 4 years since we bought CPO from Tesla in 2015.

We bought used, the initial degradation of <3% was all under the original owner in 2.5 years.

So what have you actually done to control anything useful, the fact is that you and I both have low degradation, but while we don't do anything special to manage our Tesla, and rely on whatever Tesla does with OTA and it's expert engineering, you in contrast have avoided software updates and otherwise thwarted Tesla's opportunity to keep your car up to date with the best possible options for safety and reliability of your car.

I deal with this in my day job, we have customers in regions of the world that stay on 8 year old code rather than upgrading to the latest security and feature set. It's a way of thinking that keeps innovation and progress down. #sad

You have absolutely no idea what your actual degradation is, if you are going by rated range. My degradation going by the rated range, is less than 5%. In reality, using the CAC, it’s 10%.

 

[qwk]

Your playing stupid is no longer amusing to me. They are working to mitigate and address, and when they figure that out, that will be the resolution. Sorry your deficient ESL skills led to your confusion, although that would explain other things about your posts.

Tesla saying they are working on addressing this, and it actually happening, are two different things.

 

[mvotb]

Gee bhz You sure get testy when you get beaten at your own game.

"Tesla said in the text that I quoted that they are working on a resolution for the affected vehicles."

Tesla didn't say that, you did, and according to YOU, that makes YOU a liar.

"They have already shared that they are working on a resolution to address the batteries with Z condition which was unexpected."

No, they said
"we have been working to mitigate the impact on range for these owners and have been rolling out over-the-air updates to address this issue since last week.” So according to YOU that's back to back lies from YOU.

"And it doesnt say that they aren't. " Did you Really say that! LOL According to YOU that must make YOU a lier.

If you're going to call people liars for inaccuracies or mistakes, live up to your own expectations.

Or how about we dispense with this childish liar liar game, and get back to the point thread.

One thing I have been wondering though, and since you are the self appointed truthsquad, what does this statement mean?

And I'm in a position to rather easily escalate in other ways, but have never found the need

 

[Guy V]

Tesla said in the text that I quoted that they are working on a resolution for the affected vehicles. The vocabulary developed in this thread is to call the affected vehicles the cars with condition Z batteries. People who are cognitively challenged and have a weak theory of mind of other people might not comprehend using the unique vocabulary of one group and using that vocabulary to refer to the same thing that another group was referring to but with different vocabulary.

But i suspect you weren't really confused but just pretended to be in order to weakly attempt to accuse me of lying.

The weakness of arguments of the pitchfork crowd continues. Amusing.

And croman declines to take issue with any specific facts or reasoning and just lobs in a lame empty insult from the sidelines.

If the pitchforks want to do anything they should concentrate on the facts and evidence and data and science.

Still weaseling. Tesla did not, and to date does not, admit to ANY abnormality in these batteries, "condition Z" or otherwise. Tesla also denied this limitation is related to to the publicized battery fires or safety. THEY have provided no useful information whatsoever about what is going on with these batteries. Others have, so ipso facto, you have made misstatements and still fail to own up to them, choosing insults to honesty.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

There is an old maxim of Divide and Conquer. I’m sure Tesla don’t employ that, as we seem to be doing a pretty good job of doing it ourselves lately.

Personally I would think we might achieve far more by directing our energies at Tesla, not at each other. I have certainly learnt a great deal on here about the issue, for which I am genuinely grateful. I understand it’s difficult sometimes on mediums like an Internet forum to turn the other cheek, and if I’m honest I am not without sin. Sometimes the temptation really is too strong.

But as granny used to say, please play nicely now boys.

 

[Guillaume]

Thanks @Guillaume.

People also filter the sheet and leave it as filtered, which has caused confusion as some think the sheet has shrunken with the entries missing, which leads them to add themselves again. Would you please add to the top of the sheet (row 1, 2, etc.) the rules, tips, and warnings for this sheet, bolded in red. Thanks again.

I fixed the first row and column G and protected them, so they can't be edited anymore.
To filter, the viewers now have to create their own private filter view which doesn't have an impact to other users.

 

[Kim.T]

S70D owner here.
My car is produced in may/2015. I got my battery pack replaced at 79.000km 2 years ago with a refurb. Now at 161.000km (=82.000km on refurb).
I have not lost range, but my supercharging speed has been reduced by approx 40%.
Using the car to drive on summer holiday I could see that charging approx 40kWh now takes nearly 50min, earlier it took only 35min.
Seeing TM3 using 10-15 min on the same SuC where they can get 200km range, and me wasting 50min to get the same range - that is depressing (on German autobahn the max range of my 70D is approx 230km). Thats why they will add Netflix/Youtube.... oh no guess not to MCU1 owners.....

We usual take a trip to Italy - 1.800km with approx 10 SuC stop. I'm VERY glad we only took a trip to Berlin this year. With the lower SuC speed our trip to Italy would probably have been 10x15min longer......

(AC charging 85% / DC charging 15% / usable full pack = 61,9 kWh) FW2019.28.2

 

[CuriousG]

I believe certain 70’s had software locked 85 packs.

In fact the exact opposite of what Tesla have done to my pack, ie software locking my 85 pack to a 70!

This could be why some 70 packs are included.

No, there are true 70 packs affected.

 

[CuriousG]

I have gained 3 miles back with the most recent update I super charged but didn’t seem to pick up speed about the same. Will update in a few days if I get more mileage.

I gained 3 miles WITHOUT a new firmware update.

 

[CuriousG]

Winter is coming in MN I need the range back not only for safety but getting to work.

And this can end up much like Game of Thrones - a big disappointment. Or our cars burning up to a crisp.

 

[CuriousG]

While I do not appear to affected by this update I was affected by other updates in the past that specifically affected ludi cars and then, like now, I also refrained from picking up the pitch fork until more facts were known, with the result that I avoided a lot of unnecessary upset.

So how does reduced performance ludicrous cars affect you daily compared to overall range of a car?