Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[MP3Mike]

If you read the thread on the eMMC failures you will note that version 10 writes to the eMMC for every little change, such as, for example, each time your seat moves from your memory setting to the easy entry setting.

I doubt those settings changes will make any noticeable difference to the life of the eMMC. What is wearing it out is the constant verbose logging anytime the MCU is awake.

The eMMC is a weak point in the car. You can only write to it so many times before it fails, and then you have to replace the whole MCU (unless you know someone who can desolder the old eMMC from the MCU and retrieve the data from it, and then burn a new eMMC that is soldered to the MCU board) at a cost of about $3,000 when the warranty runs out. I for one don’t need to have the eMMC wear out sooner that necessary due to frivolous writings to it.

Just as an FYI it looks like the cost of a MCU replacement has dropped to ~$2k: Musk confirms/Tesla Refutes upgradeability from MCU1 to MCU2 (And that comes with a 4-year unlimited mileage warranty.)

 

[Droschke]

it looks like the cost of a MCU replacement has dropped to ~$2k

Translation: ~$2k for an 8 GB eMMC chip, only to experience the original problem again.

 

[tga]

If you read the thread on the eMMC failures you will note that version 10 writes to the eMMC for every little change, such as, for example, each time your seat moves from your memory setting to the easy entry setting.

The eMMC is a weak point in the car. You can only write to it so many times before it fails, and then you have to replace the whole MCU (unless you know someone who can desolder the old eMMC from the MCU and retrieve the data from it, and then burn a new eMMC that is soldered to the MCU board) at a cost of about $3,000 when the warranty runs out. I for one don’t need to have the eMMC wear out sooner that necessary due to frivolous writings to it.

I fully understand the eMMC issue, but that's not what I was asking about - rather the "latest windows on a P4" comment. That sounds like a performance issue and it's hard to say that objectively if you've never done it, but are only relying on hearsay.

 

[Todd Burch]

I am affected by both loss of range and loss of charge rate.

I received v10 and a subsequent update and don’t notice a significant performance drop from v9. I have MCU1.

Just Supercharged my 85. Started at around 70 mi range, peaked at 55kW power, then dropped from there. Absolutely awful. Used to get 110+ kW around that point. Very depressing.

 

[Droschke]

Just Supercharged my 85. Started at around 70 mi range, peaked at 55kW power, then dropped from there. Absolutely awful. Used to get 110+ kW around that point. Very depressing.

Very depressing indeed. 50kw is my max with the similar SoC on V9. Your are confirming I should not expect an improvement with V10.

 

[DJRas]

I don't want to hijack this thread too much but I Googled the plaintiffs' attorney who filed the class action against Tesla, Edward C. Chen. I have no direct knowledge of his legal skills but he appears to be a solo practitioner going against a huge corporation that is represented by a national corporate defense firm. I'm concerned that he might not have the wherewithal to win this legal battle. Clearly, Tesla has decided to dig in its heels, and it will take a lot of resources to wage a legal battle against Tesla. It doesn't help that I noticed a grammatical error or two on his firm's website.

There may be further help coming up - cannot make a further disclosure yet.
So far there is nothing that a solo practice cannot handle - except for the dozens of additional plaintiffs.

 

[omarsultan]

So, is capping/throttling limited to the 85 kWh packs? Are no S60s impacted so far?

 

[Droschke]

So, is capping/throttling limited to the 85 kWh packs? Are no S60s impacted so far?

I know of a S60 (@Leeboy22001) with 13% hit.

 

[DJRas]

If you know someone that has the android app ScanMyTesla you can use it to see the condition of your battery.

Also, there is a new product from Germany that is like a super Teslafi data logger. @DJRas just ordered one to test. Perhaps he can provide some info on it. Here is a link to the product:
Tesla Battery diagnostics – Teslalogger Preview – EMDS

I had a ~2 hour talk with Michael Kruge (him in Berlin and me in California) about this new device and the condition of Tesla cars in Europe.
This new device has been working for about 6 months on a few dozen cars before they released it recently.
It was designed in association with Amund Borsen (author of Scan My Tesla) and I a few other people.
I will know much more about this product once I receive it.
It basically gathers EVERYTHING available through the mobile API.
It gathers it in such a way as it can be statistically analyzed.
It runs seamlessly from your home internet connection by accessing your car using the Tesla credentials.
You can either keep your data private or share with the community for fleet-wide data

There will also be an interface to integrate Scan My Tesla data and CANBUS dumps to get even more detailed information.

Interesting other data from Michael:
European insurance companies are supportive of third party maintenance and repair of Teslas (including battery refurbishment).
Much of this is due to the lack of spares available worldwide - thus making the insurance pay for extraordinarily long rentals.

This may be another tactic we can pursue here in the states.
It might only be good for those beyond warranty.
But, we can see Tesla is currently disregarding the battery warranty.

 

[DJRas]

I know of a S60 (@Leeboy22001) with 13% hit.

I haven't seen any 60s that are capped.
I have seen 2 that ARE severely degraded (charge to 4.2 volts but only have <45 kWh capacity).

There are also 70s that have been affected.
I also recall one X 90 affected.

 

[Droschke]

I haven't seen any 60s that are capped.
I have seen 2 that ARE severely degraded (charge to 4.2 volts but only have <45 kWh capacity).

There are also 70s that have been affected.
I also recall one X 90 affected.

@Leeboy22001 posted lots of messages on this thread, although we have not heard from him lately. He initially reported 10% sudden loss back in June for his S60, but recorded it as 13% in the spreadsheet later.

 

[omarsultan]

I would suggest there is a difference between natural degradation (the cell can no longer hold 4.2V because of physical changes to the cell) and imposed degradation (Tesla is imposing a cap to stop it from charging to 4.2V because its not a good idea for other reasons).

 

[DJRas]

I would suggest there is a difference between natural degradation (the cell can no longer hold 4.2V because of physical changes to the cell) and imposed degradation (Tesla is imposing a cap to stop it from charging to 4.2V because its not a good idea for other reasons).

Actually, natural degradation does allow charging to the full 4.2 volts. It just delivers less Ah due to chemistry changes.

 

[omarsultan]

Actually, natural degradation does allow charging to the full 4.2 volts. It just delivers less Ah due to chemistry changes.

Yeah, I know I did not phrase that quite right after I posted it.

 

[iRia]

So, is capping/throttling limited to the 85 kWh packs? Are no S60s impacted so far?

BT70 also has lower supercharging speeds. Take a look at one of my charging sessions at a supercharger in NJ. I had a warm battery and the supercharger was empty.

 

[jaitch]

......I believe that they detected a condition that represents defective cells............................

Do we think the condition is in the CANbus data? I guess it has to be. Presumably Jason knows what to look for. I don't remember anyone referencing CANbus data other than "brick" voltage.

If anyone has any Scan My Telsa CSV logs from a capped car ("All" data or "BMS" data and "Battery" data) then I would be interested to have a look through them. Ideally logs should be at high SOC and also low SOC. I should also temper my request that I don't really know what I am looking for but I am interested to see if there is anything that stands out versus my own uncapped one.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I disagree. The hypothesis said they detected a condition. Not that it arose over time and usage.
I believe that they detected a condition that represents defective cells.

That is exactly the conclusion I came to via a separate route.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

Question. Evidence suggests that batterygate affects pre facelift 85s, 70s (genuine not capped), and 60s. Has there been any reports of capping of 75s? (assuming that all 75s are in fact capped 85s)? Inference being if they are already capped then they are unlikely to be capped further.....

 

[Droschke]

Question. Evidence suggests that batterygate affects pre facelift 85s, 70s (genuine not capped), and 60s. Has there been any reports of capping of 75s? (assuming that all 75s are in fact capped 85s)? Inference being if they are already capped then they are unlikely to be capped further.....

I see two owners on the sheet:
S75D 8.93% Loss
S75D 2.11% Loss

There might be more.

 

[Chaserr]

Question. Evidence suggests that batterygate affects pre facelift 85s, 70s (genuine not capped), and 60s. Has there been any reports of capping of 75s? (assuming that all 75s are in fact capped 85s)? Inference being if they are already capped then they are unlikely to be capped further.....

There was at least one 75 owned that had started out with a 60 and paid for the uncap. He was rightfully complaining that Tesla took 2k from his pocket in exchange for nothing.