Right, but that also can mean 3 years of experimentation with changing the chemistry here and there, toying with the component ratios, a bit of additive here and then there, etc. They did say they constantly make changes to the cars.
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
Right, but that also can mean 3 years of experimentation with changing the chemistry here and there, toying with the component ratios, a bit of additive here and then there, etc. They did say they constantly make changes to the cars.
tga
Supporting Member
Or maybe a defective, low volume production line at a Panasonic factory in Japan that was spun up periodically during high demand crunch times.
We're talking about cars built before GF1, so Tesla was totally reliant on cells from a Panasonic factory. Who knows what kind of quality control was going on behind the scenes there (Panasonic).
I suppose there are lots of ways you could come up with to intermix a small percentage of defective cells over a 3 year span, especially when relying on an outside contractor.
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Absolutely. And again, if these batteries are indeed defective they must be replaced with the new upgraded packs. It's unconscionable for Tesla to continue to hide the truth, whatever it might be. The fact that Tesla to this date has not yet been forthcoming and has stayed silent about the root cause of their Band-Aid solution, which we as the most loyal customers are dearly paying by major range losses, seems at minimum very fishy and dishonest. Without the early adaptors, Tesla would be not where it is today. Telling us that the goal of the update is to “protect the battery and improve battery longevity” won't cut it.
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I totally agree with the issue but totally disagree with "replaced with new upgraded packs". That is not what a warranty is, and you're making affected owners sound bad. Repairing your pack or a replacement 85 pack would be just fine.
Oldschool496
Member
Not only avoiding warranty responsibility, which in the end is a cost they can somewhat control and in the end might be minor in the big picture.
When you have a parking garage burn down to the ground perhaps with lots of cars and people might get hurt, the legal ramifications, the costs of those events start to get out of control fast.
I do not believe Tesla is involved in a cover-up. To do so would not only risk Tesla's reputation, but could also involve answering to federal regulatory agencies. A class action lawsuit and resulting bad press about Tesla hiding battery defects, whether true or not, will forever damage the brand. Such a cover-up would likely result in Elon Musk's removal as CEO.
The fact that this isn't a raging topic over at the Tesla Motors forum, combined with the fact that so far nobody in my local Tesla facebook group (1,400 members) has mentioned anything about this, tells me the impacts are extremely isolated and affect just a small fraction of owners. Indeed, I have a 2013 P85 with over 95,000 miles here in the sweltering Arizona heat and I have not experienced any range loss after these updates. My car has been charging to 218 miles @ 90% for over a year now, and 242-245 miles @ 100%.
As is typical with Tesla, lack of communication leads to rampant speculation.
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The battery cells for the S&X don't ever come from GF1. They are 18650 cells while GF1 makes 2170 cells. So all S&X cells have come from Panasonic in Japan. (And will continue to do so.)
tga
Supporting Member
Test? Of course. Dozens/hundreds of cycles, equalling 20k miles of wear? NFW.
dhanson865
Active Member
Did you skip half the pages in this thread?
Here is a link to one such page Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
I'm not going to go back through 70 pages worth of messages to find all the people that discussed it but it was mentioned several times that threads on the other forum about this issue are deleted promptly.
@wk057
Also, I get the power limit line around 300kw no matter what my stare of charge when accelerating. No more flooring it to get on the freeway.
Hard to speculate when we are getting ZERO information from Tesla
How many amps are you pulling?
I wonder how many people do not realize they have been hit by the sudden range loss?
For instance, those who use charge percentage rather than miles may not have noticed.
faughtz
Model S P85DL
But they may have noticed the lack of acceleration...
You beat me too it. Several co-workers of mine have not been effected. Several have been. One of those noticed but hadn't taken any action and he's not part of the forum. Another was effected by about 15 miles and didn't even know because he stays on percentage and hasn't taken any long trips in a while.
Tesla needs to reach out to the affected owners from reading the prior posts they are saying a fix is in the works. I called my service center here in Mn and reported it waiting for a call back. I am assuming I will get that same answer but I would encourage everyone affected to notify your local service center. I would like to see a fix if not I will be taking my car back to Tesla to file a claim on my battery. I don’t agree with their solution to limit my chargeable range I paid for a bigger battery and feel like others here have stated in prior posts they took part of my car back. Did they just choose the easy fix versus repairing or recalling a battery?
I am hopeful this is resolved I am not sitting around taking a 8-10k hit on my car value if I wanted 230 miles I would have bought a 60 or 75D.
I am hopeful this is resolved I am not sitting around taking a 8-10k hit on my car value if I wanted 230 miles I would have bought a 60 or 75D.
…or the (s)lower charge (times/)rates, or needing to charge sooner/more frequently, or having regen (invisibly) throttled at a lower charge percentage than it used to be, etc. There are a variety of ways to notice, it just depends upon how closely we monitor the performance of our vehicles… most people with most cars probably don't know/care, but there's a brighter spotlight shown on Tesla (and EVs in general) — being the hot new thing, but also being the demographics they cater to — there's a greater proportion of tech geeks (*holds up hand*) obsessing over every detail of these cars than any other in the world.
That being said, it's kind of hard not to notice when one nearly rear-ends another after having taken their foot off the throttle expecting the car to slow itself down and having it fail to do so…
…I think that would clue anyone in.
dk10438
Member
Any idea of how common this issue is? I checked my dads MS60 last night and his range was what was expected. Affects mainly the 85 packs??
Maybe someone should create a poll to see how prevalent this problem is...
Maybe someone should create a poll to see how prevalent this problem is...
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Dborn
Confirmed
I haven’t noticed the range loss but then I leave my car on battery %. My main beef is the slow supercharger times. In Sydney Australia, we 2 metropolitan Superchargers which are clearly for local users rather than just to enable intercity trips. Many Tesla taxis and limos use them regularly sometimes twice or 3 times a day. I live 3 miles from the nearest one and I am retired. Why WOULDNT I use the supercharger when I have use free for life? Especially with the most expensive electricity in the Western world? Off peak is 18c a kWh!!! Peak is around 36c!!!
My main complaint is that unless I had noticed the slow charge times, I would still be none the wiser. Tesla has been totally opaque about this. My last 3 updates release notes only spoke of the Easter eggs changes- useless to me since I never look at them anyway. I forget whether they mentioned “minor bug fixes” but even if they did, this is certainly no “minor bug fix” and should have been detailed chapter and verse!!! In fact, affected owners should have been individually emailed to advise them. IR at Tesla can send emails out to us so why not something that changes things critically. Also if there is a fault leading to fire vulnerability, then this needs active correction. This software “fix” I accept as a temporary measure, but if a hardware fix is required, then it should be done as a recall!!!
My main complaint is that unless I had noticed the slow charge times, I would still be none the wiser. Tesla has been totally opaque about this. My last 3 updates release notes only spoke of the Easter eggs changes- useless to me since I never look at them anyway. I forget whether they mentioned “minor bug fixes” but even if they did, this is certainly no “minor bug fix” and should have been detailed chapter and verse!!! In fact, affected owners should have been individually emailed to advise them. IR at Tesla can send emails out to us so why not something that changes things critically. Also if there is a fault leading to fire vulnerability, then this needs active correction. This software “fix” I accept as a temporary measure, but if a hardware fix is required, then it should be done as a recall!!!
Thanks for catching my incorrect choice of wording. Did not mean to make anyone look bad.
By "upgraded" pack I meant to say a good battery instead of another defective one if what I have is indeed defective. However, I would also consider a true upgraded battery
if Tesla offers one and pay a fair difference in price. Wishful thinking on my part basically.
bmah
Moderator, Model S/X, California Forums
A self-selected subset of owners (such as those who would answer TMC forum polls) is not likely to be representative of the population as a whole.
I think that getting a handle on magnitude of the problem is a good idea, just this approach isn’t likely to work, other than to prove the existence of both affected and unaffected owners, but we knew that already.
Also, even if only a small fraction of the owners have had their range chopped, it still totally sucks if you’re one of those few.
Bruce.
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