I would be curious to see how many model S owners would buy another Tesla now vs before the infamous updates last Spring. I know I was considering an X for my wife to replace our truck. After the update I put those plans on hold. Then my S was totalled and I bought a new Accord instead of another S or a new 3. If my S had been totalled before the updates I am confident I would have replaced it with a new 3.
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
I will not. I've had a 2015 CPO for a little over two years, and watched as one update after another removed features and added bugs. I finally decided "no more updates" for my car back in 2018.16 days (right before "nag gate", remember that one?) Except just about two months ago, my MCU burned out due to the eMMC issue and was replaced with one running V10. Besides all the V10 bugs and annoyances, overnight my supercharge rate slowed ~10%, my regen when cold is noticeably lower and the regen limits stay active way longer, and -- most important to me -- my peak power output at 80% SoC dropped 40kW (from 430kW to ~390kW). (Yes this is with max battery, aka ludicrous+, turned on). Since I hadn't been on the firmware downgrade treadmill for 15 months, having all these downgrades hit at once was a very in-your-face experience.
I used to be a huge promoter of Tesla. I was the second person at my office to own one, and I encourage the first guy to get his, gave rides and talked the car up to anybody who'd listen. But now I'm actively discouraging people from purchasing them, and have successfully talked at least two people out of Model 3 purchases. This is just from me describing my ownership experience over the past 2.5 years, and from describing what Tesla's so-called "upgrades" have done as far as removing functionality, limiting features, reducing capacity, locking down the repairability of the car, and generally being a customer-hostile business.
Sucks, but it is what it is.
doctorwho
Active Member
I'd buy one, I couldn't buy another ICE now. Given Tesla's lead in battery technology, there's no guarantee that you'd avoid this problem if you bought an EV from a different manufacturer anyway. I'd just take the figures about rage, charging and longevity with a huge grain of lithium salt.
That's an interesting scenario. I can't see myself going back to an ICE car. No way. But at this point the all glorious Tesla image has been damaged. The question is are other EVs available right now better in the same usage case. We can't assume other EVs will not have similar issues after being used for many years. I don't really want to get a different EV, but I want Tesla to stand behind their product and promise. Being left behind with this crippled car is not OK. You can't just focus on innovation and progress. This isn't a phone that is OK to replace after a year or two.
When Tesla came out with the Model S, everyone was doubtful about how long the battery will last in an EV. Looks like those concerns were spot on. Not only does Tesla try to cover it up and cripple our cars, they don't even offer battery replacements for a reasonable price.
Are you me? It's like I have an sleepwalking account here. All details are the same for me except I bought my S70 new in 2015 (so no ludicrous stuff, of course) and they "fixed" my MCU instead of replacing it.
You stopped updating right when I did. What an amazing coincidence that your MCU died at almost exactly the same time mine did! I wonder if it was on the exact same day, even?
What do you consider reasonable? Doesn't Nissan charge like $8,500 to replace a 24kWh battery? Model 3 LR packs have dropped from $15k to $13.5k in the last few months. What does an S/X pack cost now?
I would bet that the sales lost due to this debacle are huge. It’s all fine and dandy now, but depending on the outcome of the lawsuit, and possible fines by the feds, Tesla might be in real trouble financially at some point in time.
No. I like the car but I am so frustrated and fed up with Tesla with their canned responses (if they respond) and their lack of customer concern.
I’ve complained multiple times to no avail. The latest is I charged my 2015 S85D to 97% (wouldn’t charge to 100%), which is rated for 270 miles. It charged up to 248miles for a 166 mile trip. When I put the car into drive and looked at my energy display it said I’d have 5% left when I’d get to my destination 166 miles away. When I eventually got home, it read that I had 18% remaining. Since I bought the car, I lost 9% capacity. Just don’t know what to do anymore.
I’ve complained multiple times to no avail. The latest is I charged my 2015 S85D to 97% (wouldn’t charge to 100%), which is rated for 270 miles. It charged up to 248miles for a 166 mile trip. When I put the car into drive and looked at my energy display it said I’d have 5% left when I’d get to my destination 166 miles away. When I eventually got home, it read that I had 18% remaining. Since I bought the car, I lost 9% capacity. Just don’t know what to do anymore.
just got a p3- yesterday. still love my p85 too (7 years old tomorrow!)...but the new cars are sick. batteries only get better/hopefully and this is all a learning experience in my opinion.
If my S was totaled I'd get a second 3. I thought I'd want another P85 if it was but not after driving around in the rain today in the P3.
This is the worst part IMO. The stonewalling and lack of customer care. All they care about is selling new vehicles (understandable to be honest as a company in their position). They are operating in the "we'll deal with it later" mindset.
I've gone from being a strong tesla advocate to an EV advocate. I actively warn people interested in purchasing a new tesla that their charging and capacity may drop only after 50k miles.
I was looking to pick up a MX but definitely not anymore, especially if they use a 18650 pack. I'll probably get a bolt, i3, and maybe the new 2020 soul ev. At the end of the day I love EVs and cars in general. If my Tesla was my only car i would be extremely annoyed if not furious.
Based on the articles referred to in these posts, it’s very likely that our batteries are probably already critically damaged by a combination of factors; all of which were in Tesla’s control.
Limiting max cell voltage, ensuring batteries are warm and limiting high voltage charging looks like a reasonable solution to avoid these problems for new packs and cars sold going forward.
So where does that leave existing owners?
I need a car that can travel a genuine 250 miles and charge fast on long journeys. Exactly the reason that I purchased a Model S 85D.
The only practical recourse that I find acceptable is to replace the battery packs.
If Tesla can not afford this as the issue affects more customers, then offer an upgrade option. Give me a 90kwh pack limited to 78kwh at a reasonable swap cost
which restores my range and charging speed and I’d consider that.
It’s clear that Tesla now needs to instigate a battery overhaul/replacement programme because none of the packs are going to last 5-10 years while owners will want to continue driving their cars beyond the life expectancy of its original battery.
Limiting max cell voltage, ensuring batteries are warm and limiting high voltage charging looks like a reasonable solution to avoid these problems for new packs and cars sold going forward.
So where does that leave existing owners?
I need a car that can travel a genuine 250 miles and charge fast on long journeys. Exactly the reason that I purchased a Model S 85D.
The only practical recourse that I find acceptable is to replace the battery packs.
If Tesla can not afford this as the issue affects more customers, then offer an upgrade option. Give me a 90kwh pack limited to 78kwh at a reasonable swap cost
which restores my range and charging speed and I’d consider that.
It’s clear that Tesla now needs to instigate a battery overhaul/replacement programme because none of the packs are going to last 5-10 years while owners will want to continue driving their cars beyond the life expectancy of its original battery.
Spot on! It all makes sense.
#1, #2, and #3 are what the Tesla's BMS has failed to do to protect our batteries. It's on them.
In "crippled" mode, they might. The goal is to make it pass the warranty finish line.
Since Tesla response to our issue with range/capacity loss is compared to the whole S fleet. Couldn't Tesla manipulate everyone's battery with the BMS by sending update firm ware and make all of our cars loss technically normal since the whole fleet is alike and and be abkebto get out of warranty replacement? Or am I thinking into this too much or just rambling nonsense.
Lol do I even make sense? I hope I do.
Lol do I even make sense? I hope I do.
Can I just confirm which setting you are using to give range at 90% and 100%, is it the Rated range or Ideal range setting in the energy display settings. On Typical I think I can squeeze around 220 miles (only charged to 100% twice so far usually at 80% to 90%)
S85 (UK) late 2014 model AP1 and a huge 116K now on the clock. But I'm seeing a lot of S75's with better battery range?
S85 (UK) late 2014 model AP1 and a huge 116K now on the clock. But I'm seeing a lot of S75's with better battery range?
Question to all who are affected. When you charge on AC (UMC or HPWC) and set it 100%, does it actually charge to 100%? I have tried to charge to 100% three times now and it will stop at 95% saying 'complete'. My car has never done this. In almost 6 years it was maybe off by 1% twice or so, but it never stopped charge at 95% when I set it to 100.
Looks like Tesla is hiding some of their capacity crippling by not allowing the car to charge to 100%. This way the range drop in Teslafi doesn't look as dramatic because for it's report it uses the range the car would have at 100%. But if the car only charges to 95% there is another 5% not available. Which means I'm down to 200 rated miles of range.
BTW, charging from 71% to 95% took almost 5 hours!
This whole thing just gets worse and worse.
Looks like Tesla is hiding some of their capacity crippling by not allowing the car to charge to 100%. This way the range drop in Teslafi doesn't look as dramatic because for it's report it uses the range the car would have at 100%. But if the car only charges to 95% there is another 5% not available. Which means I'm down to 200 rated miles of range.
BTW, charging from 71% to 95% took almost 5 hours!
This whole thing just gets worse and worse.
DJRas
Member
I was quoted $21,000 installed for a 90 kWh pack from the Oceanside SC.
That is with them keeping the old pack.
Mine no longer charges to 100%--it gives up somewhere in the mid-90s so my newly reduced max is even further lowered since the car never charges to this number. Plus, north of 80%, there is a super aggressive taper. Net, net, its not worth trying to charge beyond 90% these days.
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