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Sudden Unexpected Acceleration today

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by AZM3, May 4, 2018.

  1. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Active Member

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    It needs to limit the jerk (rate of change of acceleration). The other day I was following a motorcycle and the neural net kept losing track of it and locking on to the car in front of it. It would floor the throttle and get a few feet closer to the motorcycle, see it and then do full regen (maybe even some braking). Not smooth but I guess it's good for keeping the driver alert! And of course when you're following someone who uses the accelerator as an on-off switch TACC decides that it wants to drive the same way. I do wonder if a convoy of Tesla's were following each other if it would result in an uncontrolled oscillation.
     
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  2. u00mem9

    u00mem9 Member

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    It’s sometimes hard to be sure an incident is misapplication of the throttle pedal. Thankfully here we have a confirmed attempt to apply the brakes which were “inoperable”...simultaneously with an unintended acceleration. Driver error.

    If you weren’t able to reason that out on your own, fair enough. But if you actually DID reason that out, but still posted here to placate your wife or defraud Tesla, shame on you.
     
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  3. EVnut

    EVnut DARΞLL

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    I am still wondering why there is no mention of "she hit the brakes hard!" in this story. She was "about" to brake, and then suddenly...
    The omitted information is certainly implied, but I'd love to hear the details. Either the brakes were attempted, or they weren't. If they were... well, they still weren't. But still. then we have that confirmed attempt to apply the brakes that you mention. Otherwise, I guess she just hung on and went for the ride.... That would take some steady nerves to stay off the "brakes."

    Is the latest OP still listening? Or was that a single-post fly-by?
     
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  4. tpatana

    tpatana Member

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    On my normal driving, I have a spot that causes this. There's place where I turn from normal road to a parking lot. There's funny dip in between, so while I'm turning and usually slightly pressing brake (so small actual brake + full regen), when one of the front wheel goes over the dip and loses contact it disables regen and it really feels like the car accelerates. Happens more than 80% sure on that same exact spot every time I drive there.


    Exhibit A: Wasn't one of the common problems on Model 3 that the turning signal stalk was too easily activated? Maybe your car has fairly easy TACC side too?

    Exhibit B: My previous car, after about 3 months of ownership the wiper stalk became super sensitive. Pretty much when I hit any small pothole, it'd apply wipers. Railroad crossing -> wipers. Speed bumps -> wipers. It was kinda funny. Service tried to fix it few times, eventually replaced the stalk.

    So in your case, the TACC sounds quite possible option.
     
  5. gilscales

    gilscales Active Member

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    I must have engaged it without even realizing it, once unintended acceleration occurred then I give myself a good excuse for not figuring out that it was my fault as all that was on my mind for a fraction of a second was STOP THE CAR! now that it has been pointed out that this has happened to many people and based on how my car behaved then NOW it seems like the only logical explanation.
     
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  6. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    Put me down for $500. lol.

    --

    Seriously, this thread is still a thing? Every claim here should just be met with an auto-response: "No, you're wrong. You, your wife, your husband, or whoever was in the driver seat at the time hit the wrong pedal. Accept responsibility. Get over it." *Closed*


    Here's what I'll do. If you want to prove SUA, bring your car to my shop along with $10,000 cash. I'll have $10,000 cash as well. I'll pull the logs, verify they weren't tampered with, and decode them right in front of you. If you're technically minded, I'll even go over how exactly the speed and pedal position data is deciphered in Tesla logs.

    If they show what I know they'll show (driver pressing the accelerator), I keep your $10,000 cash and mine and also make a public post detailing the findings.

    If it shows that the brake was pressed instead, yet the car still accelerated, you take my $10,000 cash and yours. I'll additionally make an affidavit testimony of what I've uncovered and offer my services as an expert witness in any related litigation, free of charge. At your discretion, I'll post my findings publicly.

    Still want to say you're right? Put your money where your mouth is and prove it.

    If not, just get over it and move on.

    Edit: Disclaimer - You can't win this bet. I'm 17 for 17 so far on log pulls related to Tesla SUA claims (most for insurance company contacts).
     
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  7. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that insurance companies have been paying you to pull the logs because they didn't trust that Tesla was telling the truth? Or is this more of a "my client won't shut up about this not being their fault so to shut them up I'll pay an independent party to verify what Tesla has already told everyone." situation?
     
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  8. EVnut

    EVnut DARΞLL

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    #568 EVnut, Mar 5, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
    This will forever be a thing. In my experience *most* people today still think that Toyota had a serious "unintended acceleration" problem that killed all sorts of people and that Toyota was forced to fix this by recalling millions of cars.

    The star example that blew this into front-page news was a veteran CHP officer and his family in a Lexus... an aftermarket mat pegged the throttle to the floor, everybody was killed in the high-speed crash off a bridge that ensued. They had the wherewithal and the time to call 911. But nobody mashed the brake pedal.

    The 2009 Toyota Accelerator Scandal That Wasn’t What It Seemed

    I can't tell you how many times I've hammered this message into my recently-licensed daughter. If the car is going faster than you want for any reason... use the brake pedal. If you're sure that you are already on the brake pedal and the car is not slowing... no, you are not. Remove foot from the "brake" pedal, think where the brake pedal is, and go again. You can't press too hard.

    Everybody asks how to put the car into N, or how to turn it off. Or even how to call 911! Screw all that. Mash the brake pedal. And if that doesn't work, mash the brake pedal that's on the left. As far as I can tell, that has a 100% success rate in slowing or stopping the car.

    Be sure to read this (linked from the above link) to see how this was first reported.. virally. "We have no brakes"... "crash caused by faulty Toyota accelerator." And yet it was a floor mat on the accelerator that would have been defeated by proper application of the brake pedal. Tragic. Sad. And wildly off the mark.
    Toyota recall: Last words of father before he and his family died in Lexus crash | Daily Mail Online
     
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  9. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    Honestly, not 100% sure. My feeling based on the conversations is that it's the latter.

    I think people just don't want to accept a key fact in all of these cases. With nearly 100% of vehicles on the road, Tesla included, the friction brakes can always overpower the powertrain, even full throttle acceleration. It's by design. If the car accelerates quickly, you weren't on the brake, and that's just a fact people need to understand, accept it, and get over it.

    In the most juvenile and condescending tone as if there's a language barrier in a B-movie: If your foot on brake, car not move. Foot on brake. Car not move. Period.
     
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  10. brkaus

    brkaus Well-Known Member

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    There is a chance that it locked into something, like a parked car. Then accelerated toward it. But it should have stopped if it kept going to a stopped car.

    Now, if the stopped car was “lost” by the Tesla turning (or it moving out of the way totally) then it may accelerate to the set speed???

    Harder to test, but worth playing with.

    Edit to add - now that I think about it, I think there is a speed range that it will lock. I know stopped. I’m not sure about anything between stopped and 18mph.

    Now it might lock when one is stopped and driver not realize it. Then as they accelerate slowly into a spot the blocking car clears and TACC speeds up?

    Again, more testing required.
     
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  11. MasterT

    MasterT Member

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    please read these:

     
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  12. Eriamjh1138

    Eriamjh1138 Member

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    The pedal discussion reminds me of a post on /r/justrolledintotheshop.

    It was a picture of an owners accellator pedal completely covered by the floor mat with a dirt stain where the owner has been pushing to drive the car. The owner had no clue this was unsafe.

    Also, TACC and autopilot should never activate if the car is below a certain speed. I can’t resume the CC On my gasmobile until it exceeds 25-30 mph. No automatic driving system should engage froma stop.
     
  13. Knightshade

    Knightshade Well-Known Member

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    Why?

    The only time it works is in an explicitly safe situation (it has recognized, and locked on, another car in front of you)
     
  14. gilscales

    gilscales Active Member

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    So the other left?
     
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  15. novox77

    novox77 1.21 Gigawatts

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    All threads re: SUA should just redirect to this single post (the quoted one, not mine).
     
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  16. Knightshade

    Knightshade Well-Known Member

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  17. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    What I don't understand is why they are standing on the hood? Having opened the door on a car in river, wouldn't you keep walking toward the bank? Why move toward the rear, close the door, then walk around the front to stand on the car?

    #atleastigotaselfie
     
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  18. chronopc

    chronopc Active Member

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    Yeah the article says the river is shallow, so they were able to get out. So doesn't make sense why they don't just walk on shore. Seems like a publicity stunt.
     
  19. EVnut

    EVnut DARΞLL

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    I tried to bring reason to the comments section. I've determined that it is impossible. Because, you know, maybe the pedal sensor is wrong.

    In any of these stories, all you have to do is read up to the point where it says "I used the brakes" and then stop. After having lived through the Toyota debacle, I'm just SO done with user error being blamed on the car. We keep giving it airtime as if it is reasonable to consider. And the idiots in the comments section suck it right up. Electrek should strive for a higher standard than "I will give the driver the benefit of the doubt."
     

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