Supercharger - San Antonio, TX

[Purdue Mark]

A lot.

Exactly. The detour is much shorter if you aren't in the city, and instead coming from the northern suburbs.

The Model X, which they still sell today, has a rated range of 237 miles in the base model. As for earlier models, the Model S 60 kWh has a rated range of 210 miles.

If you're driving in on I-10 from the east, going out to see family/friends near Lackland AFB and trying to get back to San Marcos to 'detour' on your way back east, you've got 155 miles to cover, at highway speeds, in a car with potentially 200 miles of range after a few years of battery degradation. That trip is not comfortable for anyone but the bravest hypermilers and even then, you're going 35 mph for long stretches of the trip.

If you've got a place to charge overnight or a plug from a friend this has never been a problem, heck you can charge on I-10 during certain hours at the Tesla Service center out near where you were, but this is about accommodating your 'average' trip across the city, including anyone going up/down I-35

 

[SpiceWare]

in a car with potentially 200 miles of range after a few years of battery degradation

I agree they need to build a Supercharger in San Antonio, was just trying to figure out why you said Houston->San Antonio->back couldn't be done at all. Lackland AFB to San Marcos Supercharger is 55 miles, so seems doable in a vehicle with 200 miles of range even after some driving around in town. Yes it's inconvenient to detour 20 miles via San Marcos to get to Lackland, but that's different than impossible.

 

[PLUS EV]

I'm with SpiceWare on this one. SA needs a supercharger, but the need is being overstated here. There are many similar situations in other places so it's not like this is some unique situation. San Marcos is inconvenient for a lot of drives through SA, but it is there.

 

[ℬête Noire]

You clipped the previous line there: and the amount of people who live and drive in this area, I'd consider this the largest hole in the supercharger network in the country.

I'm not saying it's the largest hole, I-94 across North Dakota and Highway 1 across central Canada have those spots on lock down for the foreseeable future. My point was, for the number of people (read cars on the road), this hole is a problem. The populations of North Dakota and Montana alone (1.8 Million) or Saskatchewan and Manitoba (2.5 Million) barley get to the total population of metro San Antonio (2.5 Million), and that's before we add in coming from Austin or Houston populations to get there and back. The point is this could all be solved with 1 supercharger rather than the, lets go with several, it will take to fill the above gaps.

*North Dakota continues to glare*

That's a full on hole in an extreme sense, unlike SA which has some DCs and San Marcos SC. Between Houston and there there's a SC mid-way-ish to help out. In some ways ND is worse than the Canada #1 because at least the later has the Sun Highway. From Eastern MT to somewhere close to Duluth (I'd have to look at the map to see exactly) you're currently scratching to find even just campgrounds/RV stuff (well S & X might have a few ChaDemo somewhere in there? I don't bother to look for that since it's dead to me). North-South, too, from SD until you cross into Canada (where you've at least got some of those dedicated high-end L2 scattered around).

It'll be a very good day for operating a Tesla to/from/within SA when those San Antonia &/ Bourne SC are built and activated but please don't minimize ND or try to imagine that SA's situation is anywhere in the range of ND's. "Pretty much nobody lives or goes there so it doesn't much matter" isn't a constructive way to think about support for a vehicle that's aimed to be useful in travel, to be the BEV, and to transform transportation in a national and global sense.

Arkansas is even pretty thin compared to SA area, because of the potential travel lines cross it. I can make it work in my 3 LR, but then SA isn't really much of a deal for a 3 LR.

 

[charliepmayer]

plumazul: ask Red McCombs about Tesla, but don't stand too close as he replies.

 

[Purdue Mark]

I'll do this one last time, and after this I'm done arguing here.

SpiceWear:

was just trying to figure out why you said Houston->San Antonio->back couldn't be done at all. Lackland AFB to San Marcos Supercharger is 55 miles, so seems doable in a vehicle with 200 miles of range even after some driving around in town.

The whole point was, and I mentioned, coming in from the east on I-10 (Houston) - assuming you top off in Flatonia - then drive from there to Lackland area, then try to drive back to Houston with the 'detour' through San Marcos. That trip total is 155 miles to San Marcos with the detour and 196 miles if you are trying to get back to Flatonia. So without any superchargers in between, that's not a fun trip to make in a car with 200-237 miles of range when you are coming across I-10 inbound at around 80 mph.
This also completely ignores the traffic coming up from Laredo (154 miles up alone) who might be trying to come up and back. If you don't think that's a real trip, swing through La Cantera shopping mall (170 miles away from the Supercharger) some Saturday and let me know how many cars in the parking lot have plates from Mexico.

PLUS EV:

I'm with SpiceWare on this one. SA needs a supercharger, but the need is being overstated here. There are many similar situations in other places so it's not like this is some unique situation. San Marcos is inconvenient for a lot of drives through SA, but it is there.

Please point out where Tesla could put in 1 supercharger that would allow 2 highways (I-10 & I-35) to no longer have detours or even be passable. As a bonus, it should sit in a city that's in the top 10 in population (read, lots of cars on the road) and allow for a trip to and from a city in the top 5 in population (again, read lots of cars).

I'm not saying that there aren't other options to charge, or larger areas without, (Arkansas/Oklahoma, North Dakota/Montana, Saskatchewan/Manitoba) which were previously mentioned, but those are huge areas with many, many supercharger stations needed to close the gaps.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone here. Here's to hoping this time next year we aren't having this same argument...

 

[SpiceWare]

assuming you top off in Flatonia - then drive from there to Lackland area, then try to drive back to Houston with the 'detour' through San Marcos.

Aha - that's what I'm missing, thanks. If I were making that trip w/200 miles of range I'd have detoured to San Marcos on the way there. For the return trip I'd let the remaining range after the day's activities dictate if I could make it to Flatonia w/out having to drive slowly, or detour a second time via San Marcos.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone here. Here's to hoping this time next year we aren't having this same argument...

The same for y'all!

 

[Jbuntz]

I propose they put a SC at the Luby's on N. Main St. Downtown. Easy access for I-35 & I-10 24hr Lulu's Cafe across the street. Not sure about the neighborhood after night, but I have walked to Luby's durring the day.

 

[BerTX]

I propose they put a SC at the Luby's on N. Main St. Downtown. Easy access for I-35 & I-10 24hr Lulu's Cafe across the street. Not sure about the neighborhood after night, but I have walked to Luby's durring the day.

That would work for I-35 travelers,but a bit of a detour off of I-10 for those traveling through. Would also be a good location for an urban Supercharger, but we probably need road trip Superchargers more at this point.

Luby's is in financial turmoil and selling off/closing many of its locations. Not sure if this would influence siting decisions.

 

[Purdue Mark]

Aha - that's what I'm missing, thanks. If I were making that trip w/200 miles of range I'd have detoured to San Marcos on the way there. For the return trip I'd let the remaining range after the day's activities dictate if I could make it to Flatonia w/out having to drive slowly, or detour a second time via San Marcos.

SpireWare: I think we are on the same page of an hour+ detour if you are coming from Houston, and this not being a great alternative if you’ve got an other means of charging (friends/Tesla destination/3rd party chargers). Hope any trips you made over to San Antonio during the break were uneventful charging wise.


As for PLUS EV, you did one of my least favorite things in discussion and journalism today. You stated, ‘many similar situations in other locations so it’s not like this is a unique situation’, then when asked to provide ONE example, couldn’t do it. I honestly find myself doubting things when I read the words ‘many’ or ‘so much’ anymore simply because I feel like people want it to be true without ever looking at what the actual numbers or data might say.
I’m willing to hear locations you’ve got to the contrary, but I’m under the opinion that this is Tesla’s largest Supercharger hole which could be solved with 1 station.

And no, you don’t have San Marcos as an alternative if you are driving from Laredo to Austin or further up, that’s a 198 mile trip from supercharger to supercharger.

 

[BerTX]

SpireWare: I think we are on the same page of an hour+ detour if you are coming from Houston, and this not being a great alternative if you’ve got an other means of charging (friends/Tesla destination/3rd party chargers). Hope any trips you made over to San Antonio during the break were uneventful charging wise.


As for PLUS EV, you did one of my least favorite things in discussion and journalism today. You stated, ‘many similar situations in other locations so it’s not like this is a unique situation’, then when asked to provide ONE example, couldn’t do it. I honestly find myself doubting things when I read the words ‘many’ or ‘so much’ anymore simply because I feel like people want it to be true without ever looking at what the actual numbers or data might say.
I’m willing to hear locations you’ve got to the contrary, but I’m under the opinion that this is Tesla’s largest Supercharger hole which could be solved with 1 station.

And no, you don’t have San Marcos as an alternative if you are driving from Laredo to Austin or further up, that’s a 198 mile trip from supercharger to supercharger.

So @PLUS EV makes a statement then you change the criteria and say he made a false statement? Hardly seems right. The guy has been to 635 superchargers, so I think I'd believe him.

 

[plumazul]

So @PLUS EV makes a statement then you change the criteria and say he made a false statement? Hardly seems right. The guy has been to 635 superchargers, so I think I'd believe him.

There are many similar situations in other places so it's not like this is some unique situation.

This seems clear enough. What did Purdue Mark change?? San Antonio is unique and no matter how many Superchargers I visit, this fact won't change.

 

[Purdue Mark]

BerTX,
I've got to ask, how did I change the criteria? He simply made a statement, I think asked him to clarify and defined what I thought 'similar' would look like. If he had a different idea of similar, he could have given that idea as well. The fact that he said, 'many similar situations' led me to believe that coming up with one wouldn't be difficult, but again, I haven't seen a single example yet.
My whole point from the beginning is that this should be at or near the top of Tesla's list to get a Supercharger installed, and game my reasons for thinking so: lots of people in city, connects multiple interstates, major traffic influx from largest cities/metro areas in the country.
He seemed to belittle that by saying that there were other areas that were of more importance, and I simply wanted to know what those were.

 

[Bacalao]

The City of San Antonio posted on Twitter today. I responded per the image attached. They replied back.

 

[AndrewTX]

The City of San Antonio posted on Twitter today. I responded per the image attached. They replied back.

View attachment 368177

If it makes anyone feel better; I met the Tesla manager in charge of SC construction in Texas and Louisiana just before Christmas. He told me that San Antonio was their top priority in the state for 2019. No word on any specific location.

 

[Purdue Mark]

AndrewTX, thanks for the update. Yeah, i'd say San Antonio, New Orleans, and then probably College Station are the three largest issues for Tesla in 2019 and moving forward, but as we all know, there are 'many similar situations' around the country, so we can't hope for much. The permit is only 443 days old, so we've got nearly a year to go to reach the 700+ days of the French permits.

 

[PLUS EV]

AndrewTX, thanks for the update. Yeah, i'd say San Antonio, New Orleans, and then probably College Station are the three largest issues for Tesla in 2019 and moving forward, but as we all know, there are 'many similar situations' around the country, so we can't hope for much. The permit is only 443 days old, so we've got nearly a year to go to reach the 700+ days of the French permits.

The 3 largest issues are all very close to where you live!

 

[plumazul]

The 3 largest issues are all very close to where you live!

This is the Supercharger thread for San Antonio, right?
Objective criteria were offered. Why you are ignoring this is interesting. As an exercise, you can go down this list and see if you can find a greater need. San Antonio is number 24.

 

[BerTX]

My unsubstantiated feeling is that Tesla is meeting resistance in placing a Supercharger in SA. They can either butt heads, which seems to be the plan so far, or do an end run and put SC's on the Interstates outside the city limits. But even the latest site put forth for "Boerne" is actually in the San Antonio city limits.

I think Tesla is trying to build one SC to cover both I-10 and I-35/37, and that would have to be in the city. Just give it up.

 

[PLUS EV]

This is the Supercharger thread for San Antonio, right?
Objective criteria were offered. Why you are ignoring this is interesting. As an exercise, you can go down this list and see if you can find a greater need. San Antonio is number 24.

I was never arguing that San Antonio's metropolitan area had a small population. I felt like my posts were being met with unwarranted hostility so I dropped it. But I will repeat one last time. I want there to be more superchargers and I hope San Antonio gets one, preferably soon.