Supercharging option pricing/60 kWh pack fee discussion

[Dave EV]

Now that Elon has said that the cars via sunlight I don't see how there could be a usage fee.

Each solar canopy (assuming that the one at the unveiling is typical) probably has somewhere around 20 kW of PV on it (total rough ballpark judging by the size of the thing). So while it may produce enough energy on average to offset all the charging any cars do, while a car is charging the station is will still be pulling a significant amount of energy from the grid regardless of whether or not the sun is shining. The peak load from the grid (called a demand charge, typically averaged over 15 minutes) is charged separately from energy for large power installs like this, and cost can range from $5/kW to $25/kW depending on the utility, time of day and season (summer/winter). So worst case to charge one car at time at 90kW it could cost Tesla $2250 / month in utility bills. If these Supercharger stations have 4-6 of them, multiply accordingly if they all happen to charge at once. On-side battery storage would help - but you'd need a lot of batteries - would it be worth it? Only Tesla knows.

That aside - if you are a 60 kWh S potential owner, I don't see any downside to signing with the Supercharger option if it's not listed as costing you anything. I would guess that Tesla will make it some sort of subscription service for 60 kWh S owners or possibly a per-charge fee, but that's just a guess.

 

[jerry33]

I'm putting it down to "They have changed their mind several times and not even Elon can remember what the last change was".

 

[kevincwelch]

That aside - if you are a 60 kWh S potential owner, I don't see any downside to signing with the Supercharger option if it's not listed as costing you anything. I would guess that Tesla will make it some sort of subscription service for 60 kWh S owners or possibly a per-charge fee, but that's just a guess.

I think this would be fine. if the "incremental fee" is the fee to use the service, then fine. If the fee is to enable the hardware, then, it depends on the cost of what it is to enable. (But, I guess that would be OK.) If the fee is to install the hardware, then that seems to conflict with what they have stated in the past and with what the website demonstrates.

 

[ahimberg]

Perhaps tesla is planning to not include the supercharger hardware with 60's sometime in the future? (non-north America? next model year), and only committing to 85's always having it in the future.
Sure would be nice to know though, if its expensive that might push some people to get the 85

 

[Chas F]

Each solar canopy (assuming that the one at the unveiling is typical) probably has somewhere around 20 kW of PV on it (total rough ballpark judging by the size of the thing).

Pretty sure I heard Elon say each canopy would generate 100 kW.

 

[Discoducky]

I'm putting it down to "They have changed their mind several times and not even Elon can remember what the last change was".

Might never know, but I'm thinking the same thing. My service specialist emailed be back saying he'll have an answer back next week.

 

[Dave EV]

Pretty sure I heard Elon say each canopy would generate 100 kW.

Video of event below - I can't find that reference anywhere, can you?

 

[Brian H]

Each solar canopy (assuming that the one at the unveiling is typical) probably has somewhere around 20 kW of PV on it (total rough ballpark judging by the size of the thing). So while it may produce enough energy on average to offset all the charging any cars do, while a car is charging the station is will still be pulling a significant amount of energy from the grid regardless of whether or not the sun is shining. ...

Etc.
Mostly irrelevant. TM has nothing to do with the electricity dispensed or generated once the SC station is installed.

ALL of the power to the cars is from the grid. Solar City pays for the electricity used, and meanwhile sells its solar-gen power to utilities, possibly under FIT arrangements. It sizes its total network capacity to generate a surplus, and thus make a profit.

It's brilliant. The power to users is free, TM is "hands-off" and unencumbered by station mgmt. details, and Solar City gets a whole bunch of locations for its panels.

 

[Chas F]

Video of event below - I can't find that reference anywhere, can you?

My mistake. At 2:47 he mentions that the supercharger would charge the car at 100 kW. Nothing to do with the PV.

 

[grisnjam]

Etc.
ALL of the power to the cars is from the grid. Solar City pays for the electricity used, and meanwhile sells its solar-gen power to utilities, possibly under FIT arrangements. It sizes its total network capacity to generate a surplus, and thus make a profit.

From this: Superchargers will only work on Model S (for now) and every future Tesla EV

It looks like they plan on having onsite battery storage, at least in the future so you really can say your driving on pure sunlight:

Currently, there are only two Supercharger stations that have batteries (to store solar energy, we assume), the ones in Lebec and Barstow. The plan is to install batteries at all Superchargers, though, as well as make them all solar-powered. "The vision is absolutely solar-powered," Ra tells AutoblogGreen. "Not all will be in the immediate future, but that is the plan."

 

[Todd Burch]

Is this a hint that Tesla will possibly be buying back our batteries in the future to use them in superchargers?

It would be smart to offer a buyback program, because it will keep Tesla customers as Tesla customers. Think about it. 10 years from now, if you want the latest EV, Tesla takes your car and battery in exchange for a discount on a new purchase.

You likely wouldn't be able to take a Model S with a battery nearing the end of its usable lifetime as an EV battery for a significant credit at a different automaker. But with Tesla, a used battery still has plenty of life left for supercharging. Surely Tesla recognizes this, and I predict they'll take this approach. Anyway, back to the 60 kWh discussion...

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Is this a hint that Tesla will possibly be buying back our batteries in the future to use them in superchargers?

Ooh. Give that dog a cookie.

Of course, if the cost of new batteries drops far enough they'd be able to use new modules that would perform better. I presume they have the potential gains from arbitrage figured into the business model the same way Better Place does.

 

[CyberDutchie]

Supercharghing option pricing announced for 60 kWh battery

This just received from Tesla:

Today, we are announcing pricing for the option that enables Model S to access the Supercharger network. This option will cost $2,000 on Model S equipped with our 60 kWh battery and includes unlimited, free Supercharging for the lifetime of your Model S. Supercharging is included as standard equipment on cars equipped with our 85 kWh battery.

Supercharger access is made up of three components: hardware, software and the vehicle interface. The cost to enable Supercharging on cars equipped with a 60 kWh battery is $2,000. Hardware represents approximately $1000 of the cost, while software configuration, enabling and testing the interface represents another $1000.

Since you are an early reservation holder and booked your 60 kWh Model S before complete Supercharging information was available, we planned ahead to build your Model S with Supercharger hardware at no additional cost to you. If you would now like to enable access to the Supercharger network, we still need to configure the software, and enable and test the interface. There will be a $1000 charge to complete this work if you would like to enable access to the Supercharger network. After this work is complete, you will then have unlimited free access to the network for the lifetime of your Model S (this even extends to all future owners of the car).

Supercharger hardware and software must be calibrated and tested during installation, so it must be done during production of your car. We cannot add Supercharging to your car after you take delivery.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

$2,000 for new 60 kWh configs from hereon! $1,000 for me since I had finalized before the SC announcement.

Just got an email from Tesla:

You are receiving this email because you have placed an order for Model S and opted for our 60 kWh battery. We are contacting you today to see if Supercharging is an option you would like to enable on your car.

Earlier this week, we announced details surrounding our Supercharger network. Superchargers are designed to give Model S half a charge in about half an hour, making road trips in an electric vehicle a practical reality.

Superchargers are being placed along well-travelled routes across North America and, while we only have six locations today, we plan to have over a hundred locations by 2015.

Today, we are announcing pricing for the option that enables Model S to access the Supercharger network. This option will cost $2,000 on Model S equipped with our 60 kWh battery and includes unlimited, free Supercharging for the lifetime of your Model S. Supercharging is included as standard equipment on cars equipped with our 85 kWh battery.

Supercharger access is made up of three components: hardware, software and the vehicle interface. The cost to enable Supercharging on cars equipped with a 60 kWh battery is $2,000. Hardware represents approximately $1000 of the cost, while software configuration, enabling and testing the interface represents another $1000.

Since you are an early reservation holder and booked your 60 kWh Model S before complete Supercharging information was available, we planned ahead to build your Model S with Supercharger hardware at no additional cost to you. If you would now like to enable access to the Supercharger network, we still need to configure the software, and enable and test the interface. There will be a $1000 charge to complete this work if you would like to enable access to the Supercharger network. After this work is complete, you will then have unlimited free access to the network for the lifetime of your Model S (this even extends to all future owners of the car).

Supercharger hardware and software must be calibrated and tested during installation, so it must be done during production of your car. We cannot add Supercharging to your car after you take delivery.

Given the timing of your car, we need to know in the next 10 days if you would like to have Supercharger access added to your Model S for $1,000. This is half of what those who have not yet configured will pay.

No matter what you decide, your Model S delivery will not be delayed.

- - - Updated - - -

Additional FAQs in the email:

HOW MANY SUPERCHARGER LOCATIONS ARE THERE NOW?
There are currently six Superchargers in operation today, all in California, with more under construction. Today, a Model S owner can travel from Lake Tahoe to San Diego, or Los Angeles to Las Vegas without lengthy stops or paying for electricity.

HOW WILL I KNOW WHEN ADDITIONAL SUPERCHARGERS COME ONLINE?
Supercharger locations will be listed on our website.

WHAT HAPPENS IF ALL THE SUPERCHARGERS AT A PARTICULAR LOCATION ARE OCCUPIED?
Depending on location, Supercharger stations will have either four or six charge bays. There is currently no way to know ahead of time which bays are open. But, it's a great idea and we are taking this feature into consideration.

CAN ROADSTERS SUPERCHARGE?
No, only Model S equipped with 60 kWh or 85 kWh batteries can use Superchargers.

CAN I CHARGE LONGER THAN A HALF HOUR AT A SUPERCHARGER?
Absolutely, there's no time limit when using a Supercharger. We describe a Supercharger's rate of charge as half a charge in about 30 minutes because people rarely pull up to a charging station with a fully drained battery. Usually, there's about a quarter of a charge remaining, and people charge up enough to get to their destination without waiting for a full charge.

WILL MY DELIVERY DATE CHANGE BASED ON MY CHOICE?
No. You can choose to add Supercharging to your order, decline the option, or upgrade to an 85 kWh battery without affecting your delivery date. You can also change to a 40 kWh battery. This will delay your delivery into 2013 when 40 kWh battery cars begin production.

HOW MUCH DOES SUPERCHARGING COST?
Supercharging is a pre-paid option with no pay-as-you-go cost. Once enabled, you can charge at any Supercharger location as often as you like at no cost.

IS SUPERCHARGING TRANSFERRABLE?
Yes. Supercharging is part of your Model S and can be transferred to the next owner.

CAN I DECIDE LATER, AFTER I TAKE DELIVERY?
No. Superchargers charge at a rate 4.5 times faster than our next fastest charging solution. All that power must be safely routed through your Model S using special cables that bypass onboard chargers, and must be extensively calibrated and tested during production. We cannot add Supercharging to your car after you take delivery.

I'M HESITANT TO PURCHASE SUPERCHARGING WITHOUT KNOWING THE EXACT LOCATION OF FUTURE SITES.
That's understandable. While there is no guarantee of specific Supercharger locations at this time outside of the six currently in operation in California, we do plan to enable well-travelled routes and cross-country coverage by 2015. Supercharger locations are selected by comparing popular highway destinations against concentrations of Reservation Holders, so there's an excellent chance that Superchargers are coming your way.

SUPERCHARGING HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE WAS INCLUDED IN MY PURCHASE AGREEMENT. DO I NEED TO ADD THIS OPTION?
You only need to add this option if you would like to have access to the Supercharger network. The current price to install, configure and test the hardware and software required to enable Supercharging is $2,000. Because we have included this hardware in your car at no additional cost, you only need to pay $1,000 to configure, enable and test the Supercharger components. This does not mean you have to enable this option. We planned the hardware into your car to give you a choice when pricing became available. Just because we've planned to install hardware in your car does not mean you have to order the option. Please use the buttons above to indicate whether you would like this option added to your Model S or would prefer to decline it.

 

[CyberDutchie]

GG, got the same message.

You beat me posting it here by 2 minutes. Mods, please merge the new thread I started.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

These buttons were available to make my selection:

 

[markb1]

Just got the same email, since I decided to finalized while they were still showing the supercharge hardware as included. I suppose they think I should be grateful that it's $1000 and not $2000, but actually I'm pissed.

 

[Discoducky]

Speechless, my email says I have 10 days to decide....

I was thinking that as an early reservation holder TM would not make us pay an extra fee. Another grand gets sucked out for something that I thought was included.

Here is the full text of my email:

You are receiving this email because you have placed an order for Model S and opted for our 60 kWh battery. We are contacting you today to see if Supercharging is an option you would like to enable on your car.

Earlier this week, we announced details surrounding our Supercharger network. Superchargers are designed to give Model S half a charge in about half an hour, making road trips in an electric vehicle a practical reality.

Superchargers are being placed along well-travelled routes across North America and, while we only have six locations today, we plan to have over a hundred locations by 2015.

Today, we are announcing pricing for the option that enables Model S to access the Supercharger network. This option will cost $2,000 on Model S equipped with our 60 kWh battery and includes unlimited, free Supercharging for the lifetime of your Model S. Supercharging is included as standard equipment on cars equipped with our 85 kWh battery.

Supercharger access is made up of three components: hardware, software and the vehicle interface. The cost to enable Supercharging on cars equipped with a 60 kWh battery is $2,000. Hardware represents approximately $1000 of the cost, while software configuration, enabling and testing the interface represents another $1000.

Since you are an early reservation holder and booked your 60 kWh Model S before complete Supercharging information was available, we planned ahead to build your Model S with Supercharger hardware at no additional cost to you. If you would now like to enable access to the Supercharger network, we still need to configure the software, and enable and test the interface. There will be a $1000 charge to complete this work if you would like to enable access to the Supercharger network. After this work is complete, you will then have unlimited free access to the network for the lifetime of your Model S (this even extends to all future owners of the car).

Supercharger hardware and software must be calibrated and tested during installation, so it must be done during production of your car. We cannot add Supercharging to your car after you take delivery.

Given the timing of your car, we need to know in the next 10 days if you would like to have Supercharger access added to your Model S for $1,000. This is half of what those who have not yet configured will pay.

No matter what you decide, your Model S delivery will not be delayed.

 

[ahimberg]

I'm surprised they didn't mention offering 85kWh as an option to change without impacting order date

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

I'm surprised they didn't mention offering 85kWh as an option to change without impacting order date

They did. My post above now has the FAQs including this one:

WILL MY DELIVERY DATE CHANGE BASED ON MY CHOICE?
No. You can choose to add Supercharging to your order, decline the option, or upgrade to an 85 kWh battery without affecting your delivery date. You can also change to a 40 kWh battery. This will delay your delivery into 2013 when 40 kWh battery cars begin production.