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Tesla CHAdeMo Update
- Thread starter mrjohnlnguyen
- Start date
EVNow
Well-Known Member
The R&D effort is small compared to the effort to place 100s of QC on the ground - esp. in the dense urban environment.
Rowlock
Member
That was my point exactly, yes.
That's a good sign. Definitely got my fingers crossed here, anyway.
Ah, extra conductors for the additional phases would make sense. Thanks for the info. Hopefully that will mean a straight plug conversion might be possible, or at least more feasible.
As far as I know the US connector doesn't have any advantage whatsoever over the EU connector except size. The EU connector can do 32A three-phase, 80A single phase and SuperCharging.
My guess is that if the EU version had been developed first the EU connector would be used in the US too. Then you would be able to charge from commercial three-phase power.
We don't yet know what sort of compromise has been needed to get Supercharging in there. If it is just a standard type2 connector, then the max Supercharging rate would be significantly less than the US cars (about 50kW). Probably they've enhanced the standard connector in some way, but it may still fall short of what the US connector can do.
The pins in a standard Mennekes connector aren't rated for the current necessary for supercharging.
More-count isn't the same as more-volume.
Or put another way, 72 pennies < 3 quarters.
The EU Model S connector clearly looks like an enhanced, deeper (for more contact area) version of the "Mennekes" Type 2.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
You have to look at the current carrying capabilities and the size of the pins (mainly for supercharging). And in the US, NEC does not allow you to spread current over multiple pins (like DC-mid does for the European plug)
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The way Tesla would look at it is how many sales they would lose if they didn't offer the adapter. If that amount is low then they don't need to spend money on it. The amount of QC is irrelevant because it depends on if potential customers think they need to use it (if they have no experience with a EV previously they probably won't).
In Japan and probably Norway, where their entire country is already covered (and superchargers yet), it may be a deal breaker, but in the US probably not.
I don't think that is correct. in the US, there are already pockets with considerable coverage. with a CHAdeMO adapter, you can drive practically anywhere in OR, they are ever 25 miles along I-5 for a good stretch, they go out to the coast as well. In WA they are every 40 miles or so along I-5 from border to border and along rt 2 all the way out to Wenatchee. more are being opened regularly. Since a huge market for the S is in WA/OR, and lots of CHAdeMO in that market, I see no other option than to offer the adapter or risk pissing off a lot of people. nothing takes away that Tesla grin like having to spend hours charging at a 30A blink charger right next to a 300A QC... it's down right embarrassing.
I doubt we will be seeing a CHAdeMO adapter in the near future. The superchargers on I-5 are open and this pretty well covers the large population regions of WA/OR. Tesla needs and is transitioning to selling cars to "regular" folks, ie non-EV early adopters. These folks just want to drive around like an ICE car, plug in at nite at home and use the nav system to find superchargers for road trips. Few folks are going to need CHAdeMO "sort of fast" chargers when out and about. Yes I know some folks will say, "But I drive xxx number of miles each day and need to fast charge in the middle of the day and can't plug in at work." But realistically this is a small number of people. Tesla is a business and trying to become a major player doesn't mesh with providing everything to every niche consumer.
I just want to be able to charge faster than at an RV park in OK and KS. I don't care if it's a Supercharger, ChaDEmo, J1772, or Frankenplug. Of course, I'd much rather have a Supercharger but that doesn't look to be possible for many years.
I think having superchargers on the interstates is awesome but they aren't enough. They don't remove the road-trip problem, just mitigate it a bit. There is a LOT of territory that isn't ever going to be covered by SCs. So why prevent us from using other infrastructure? We're scrambling to get 70A clipper creek chargers installed in rural parts of WA just to get a 3-4 hr charge time. A chademo adaptor is in Tesla's best interest as it further mitigates the RT problem.
So Tesla provides an adapter for every other kind of charging except CHAdeMO - so why are you defending this silly omission? I mean, if you're going to provide every other plug out there, why omit one? Makes no sense. Also, you are advocating that simply because Tesla is installing Superchargers, a CHAdeMO is unnecessary because it's only "sort of fast". Well, not everyone is within driving distance of a Supercharger, so their only choices are to charge "sort of fast" at home or to charge slowly at a public charging station. Why do they, as well as the rest of us, not deserve the "sort of fast" option if that is the fastest option outside of our garage?
Consumers just want to plug in and charge, so the solution to doing that is by omitting a CHAdeMO adapter when you already sell an adapter for everything else? I do not understand this logic at all. That's like saying you can only use Shell Stations for your ICE car but not Exxon. That's highly useful for the consumer, then? It sounds to me like nothing more than rationalization for Tesla completely dropping the ball here. Why rationalize Tesla's mistake rather than encourage them to offer the maximum number of charging options to their customers?
Couldn't we at least give them time to launch the Model S in Japan with the adapter before we consider them ignoring customer demands? They just launched in Europe so they have a lot going on.
The basic point that currently, this adapter would be useful to only a few people in certain parts of the country. There isn't one within 250 miles of me and there will be a Supercharger on those routes within the year. I would rather have the adapter than not have so hope they produce it. I don't think anyone here is saying they don't want people who want one to have it just that at the current time with Tesla having limited resources that it may not be their first priority.
The basic point that currently, this adapter would be useful to only a few people in certain parts of the country. There isn't one within 250 miles of me and there will be a Supercharger on those routes within the year. I would rather have the adapter than not have so hope they produce it. I don't think anyone here is saying they don't want people who want one to have it just that at the current time with Tesla having limited resources that it may not be their first priority.
(1) You started off so well. This seems totally reasonable.
(2) And then you threw in "few people" (without supporting it with data that no-one has available yet), and beg for an argument.
Just sayin'.
Few people meaning people clustered around the areas that have the CHAdeMO stations (Washington state, Chicago, Oregon, Houston/Dallas, parts of California and Tennessee). You said I didn't support it with data but can you show me a map of CHAdeMO stations that is every 50 miles along major highways that would make it useful for its intended audience (Leaf owners)? If more than 50% of Tesla customers lived in Tennessee or WA/OR where there is a heavy density of CHAdeMO stations then the phrase 'few people' would be incorrect I'll admit. That doesn't take anything away from the fact that the people in those areas really want and need the adapter as it would be very useful to them. Again, I hope Tesla makes the adapter.
We will benefit from the adapter since if you can make it to a major city with a CHAdeMO station you can get a quicker charge for driving around before you head out and hit the next Supercharger in the future. Nissan had a 3 year head start on their charging network (I know it isn't officially Nissan's charging network but they are the major player here) so it will take Tesla time to catch up.
Didn't mean anything bad with the phrase 'few people'. There are many more CHAdeMO chargers than Superchargers at this point but that may change. I still want the adapter and hope Tesla makes it as it can be useful and if Nissan and others ramp up CHAdeMO installations in the US could be really useful to all Tesla customers. With other companies now backing the Frankenplug coming out though we might see more of those coming on line so can't expect CHAdeMO to take off like it is in Japan.
Number of CHAdeMO Chargers in US Passes 200-Unit Mark; 300 Mark to Fall Soon
Looks like there are under 300 charge points for CHAdeMO in US. Telsa has 14 locations today (each with 2-10 points each I believe so already have almost 1/4th the number or charge points).
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I think you missed my point. Note that you said "few" and I called that out. And then you reply with (paraphrasing) "but you're not supporting more than few / many". You're right. I didn't. That's my point.
I think we can agree on what you said in (1) but we should table (2) for now because it's not getting us anywhere in this or the other threads. And more broadly, (a) I think we can agree on giving Tesla a pass for "some time" while they get Europe, Japan, etc. underway and we see the CHAdeMO results that come out of that and (b) I hope we can agree that we're not going to get a consensus on the "demand" or "value" of CHAdeMO for North America on TMC for at least 6 months.
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