Tesla EV Tax Credits coming back?

[advocate8]

I believe Manchin is a bit more principled than that. He definitely wants to preserve jobs in WV, and that includes coal.
BTW China buys half the coal the USA produces, and will continue to as they're building many more coal-fired electrical energy plants currently, despite their 'Climate Change' promises.
So WV is gonna sell more coal regardless. It just won't go to US plants.

But I'm inclined to believe Manchin when he says it's the larger issues of misleading the public and driving the Nation into unsustainable debts that are informing his stance.
Note that CNN and other MSM would be shouting on the rooftops if people in WV were complaining. They are not.

Prinipled? Manchin is keeping the spotlight on himself -- as he always did as governor etc -- as a foil for Biden, which plays well back home. His stonewalling helps prevent Biden from getting anything done and thereby helps ensure GOP takeover of House and Senate in 2022. Or at least can be portrayed as doing that even though it’s likely anyway.
At that point, Manchin will change parties to be on the side with power and be welcomed with open arms... and his path to reelection in 2024 goes from no chance at all to easy.
I’m guessing he will agree to either nothing or nearly nothing and much aimed at the environment will be gutted from the bill. Including the EV tax credit provisions.

Forget the endless mistakes in the past few weeks, the Demos should have gone to him right out of the gate and said what will it take to get you onboard? How about we steer 250,000 EV and wind power manufacturing jobs into WVa with federal subsidies. Your state can become the epicenter of the new economy, rather than continue to die slowly at coal comes to an end.

But that’s not what is going to happen. WVa will continue to go down the drain, Trump will be back in 2024 and all US efforts to fight climate change will end.

 

[highstrunghero]

Also it’s been said it has to be manufactured in 2022. This would push it to mid to late January to take delivery.

This has been brought up before, and nobody can find any proof of this. We should stop pushing this rumor.

 

[t.e.s.l.a_dude]

This has been brought up before, and nobody can find any proof of this. We should stop pushing this rumor.

Agreed. Also per Tesla, all vehicles manufactured after Nov 1st, 2021 are designated as Model Year 2022.

 

[Jschoef]

I deleted the post.

 

[leaftoy]

House Modifications to EV Tax Credit

The revised legislation is [here]

• Income Caps
  • $800,000 *-->* $500,000 (joint filers)
  • $400,000 --> $250,000 (single filers)
• Vehicle MSRP Caps
  • Vans: $64,000 --> $80,000
  • SUVs: $69,000 --> $80,000
  • Pickup Trucks: $74,000 --> $80,000
  • Other: $55,000 --> $55,000 (*unchanged*)
• New Provision
  • Each taxpayer cannot claim more than 1 vehicle per year

How does the proposed tax credit work for leases? Do the manufacturer/leaser get the credit (like they did in current law) and decided how much of it to pass along? If so, assuming Tesla generously passes along their credit to the leasee, would leasing make sense for folks who are above the AGI limits?

From a tax policy perspective, the AGI limit and reduction of AGI limit in recent update both make little sense. How much is actually being saved vs the amount of effort needed to make sure only folks under an AGI limit get the credit. Is it just optics?

 

[t.e.s.l.a_dude]

How does the proposed tax credit work for leases? Do the manufacturer/leaser get the credit (like they did in current law) and decided how much of it to pass along? If so, assuming Tesla generously passes along their credit to the leasee, would leasing make sense for folks who are above the AGI limits?

From a tax policy perspective, the AGI limit and reduction of AGI limit in recent update both make little sense. How much is actually being saved vs the amount of effort needed to make sure only folks under an AGI limit get the credit. Is it just optics?

Tesla would factor in the tax credit to the total lease amount but is not forced to do it AFAIK. So it will depend on Tesla's goodwill and of course if the bill passes or not.

 

[MY_KK]

House Modifications to EV Tax Credit

The revised legislation is [here]

• Income Caps
  • $800,000 *-->* $500,000 (joint filers)
  • $400,000 --> $250,000 (single filers)
• Vehicle MSRP Caps
  • Vans: $64,000 --> $80,000
  • SUVs: $69,000 --> $80,000
  • Pickup Trucks: $74,000 --> $80,000
  • Other: $55,000 --> $55,000 (*unchanged*)
• New Provision
  • Each taxpayer cannot claim more than 1 vehicle per year

For the new provision

• Each taxpayer cannot claim more than 1 vehicle per year

If both my wife and I buy an EV next year (for a total of 2 for the family) and we file the tax return jointly (and we have far less than the 500k cap), does that count as 1 vehicle (for each taxpayer) or 2?

 

[leaftoy]

Tesla would factor in the tax credit to the total lease amount but is not forced to do it AFAIK. So it will depend on Tesla's goodwill and of course if the bill passes or not.

Yes, reading through the latest draft, it looks like a long as the vehicle is leased to an individual, the leaser gets the credit regardless of the AGI of the lessee. MSRP limits for vehicle class still applies. So assuming Tesla cooperates folks who are above the AGI may want to think about leasing. (This is assuming more things don't change in the legislation and if any of these ever passes).

BTW, the AGI that matters is lesser of the previous year's AGI and current year's AGI. i.e., you can take the credit if last year's AGI was under the limit or current year's AGI ends up being under the limit.

 

[PaulNY]

House Modifications to EV Tax Credit

The revised legislation is [here]

• Income Caps
  • $800,000 *-->* $500,000 (joint filers)
  • $400,000 --> $250,000 (single filers)
• Vehicle MSRP Caps
  • Vans: $64,000 --> $80,000
  • SUVs: $69,000 --> $80,000
  • Pickup Trucks: $74,000 --> $80,000
  • Other: $55,000 --> $55,000 (*unchanged*)
• New Provision
  • Each taxpayer cannot claim more than 1 vehicle per year

Thanks for posting. That’s a significant change for some, if it holds.

 

[Gem!ni]

Thanks for posting. That’s a significant change for some, if it holds.

I guess for those wanting FSD for the Model Y, they'll be able to add it in with no issues.

 

[PNWLeccy]

I understand that this new draft simplifies the vehicle MSRP caps ($80k Trucks/SUVs, $55k Sedans/etc.) but this really should just be a universal $80k MSRP cap. Vehicle class should not even matter as the goal should be to incentivize people to replace whatever type of vehicle people are already using and have decided they need. If anything, we should be incentivizing smaller, more efficient sedans vs trucks/SUVs which is counter to the current MSRP cap structure.

Also, I think that Tesla has adjusted it's 2022 VINs to help address these vehicle class caps. The Model 3 and S are keeping the 5YJXXX VINs (NHTSA: Passenger Car, Sedan/Saloon) and the Model X and Y are getting the 7SAYXXX VINs (NHTSA: Multipurpose Passenger Vehicle, Sports Utility Vehicle).

 

[PineNut]

For the new provision

• Each taxpayer cannot claim more than 1 vehicle per year

If both my wife and I buy an EV next year (for a total of 2 for the family) and we file the tax return jointly (and we have far less than the 500k cap), does that count as 1 vehicle (for each taxpayer) or 2?

Here is the language from the latest draft which applies to your question:

"VEHICLE LIMITATION.—The number of new
qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicles taken in account under subsection (a) shall not exceed 1 per taxpayer
per taxable year."

If you and your spouse file a joint return, you are both still taxpayers and the first name listed on the tax return (form 1040) is the primary taxpayer.

So my interpretation is that you and your spouse could each qualify for the EV tax credit in the same year. To be more certain about it, I'd make sure one purchase agreement (the dealer's sales contract) is in the primary taxpayer's name and the other purchase agreement is the the spouse's name but that may not be necessary.

One other question I had was about the maximum income limits of $250K if filing single and $500K if filing joint in order to qualify for the EV credit. They are not talking about your adjusted gross income which you enter on your tax return. Instead, they are talking about a "modified adjusted gross income". Generally, modified adjusted gross income is equal to your adjusted gross income plus other nontaxable income you may have. However, the IRS definition of modified adjusted gross income changes depending on which section of the tax code you are looking at.

For instance, in some cases you must add tax free income (such as municipal bonds/dividends) and the untaxed part of your Social Security (if applicable) to your adjusted gross income in order to get your modified adjusted gross income. However, on page 1483 of the bill they only mention adding nontaxable income from tax code sections 911, 931, and 933 to your adjusted gross income. From what I see, those sections apply to nontaxable foreign income. So if you have a lot of nontaxable foreign income you might exceed the income limits for the EV credit.

 

[Slumpey326]

I feel like if this gets passed and and it only starts with purchases 1/01/22 and after no one will be purchasing a Tesla in December of this year

 

[voxel]

I feel like if this gets passed and and it only starts with purchases 1/01/22 and after no one will be purchasing a Tesla in December of this year

That's not true. M3P is not eligible and also lots of folks on Discord channels and in these forums that want their Teslas ASAP. i.e woman who is paying an for an expensive rental car after her car was totaled.

Those who hold until 1/1/2022 and then unhold will hit the "mad rush" and I suspect will wait up to three months before getting their car.

 

[t.e.s.l.a_dude]

I feel like if this gets passed and and it only starts with purchases 1/01/22 and after no one will be purchasing a Tesla in December of this year

That's why I delayed my delivery just in case for after 1/1/22. However, seeing the posts on other threads, there are many who do not want to wait or need a car before year end. I do not think that Tesla will have any issues in selling the cars before 12/31/21 given the current demand.

 

[Slumpey326]

That's not true. M3P is not eligible and also lots of folks on Discord channels and in these forums that want their Teslas ASAP. i.e woman who is paying an for an expensive rental car after her car was totaled.

Those who hold until 1/1/2022 and then unhold will hit the "mad rush" and I suspect will wait up to three months before getting their car.

I was just joking I think Tesla will have a great Q4 no matter what happens

 

[PaulNY]

That's not true. M3P is not eligible and also lots of folks on Discord channels and in these forums that want their Teslas ASAP. i.e woman who is paying an for an expensive rental car after her car was totaled.

Those who hold until 1/1/2022 and then unhold will hit the "mad rush" and I suspect will wait up to three months before getting their car.

Or more…

 

[t.e.s.l.a_dude]

That's not true. M3P is not eligible and also lots of folks on Discord channels and in these forums that want their Teslas ASAP. i.e woman who is paying an for an expensive rental car after her car was totaled.

Those who hold until 1/1/2022 and then unhold will hit the "mad rush" and I suspect will wait up to three months before getting their car.

Of course everybody is in a different situation but I can wait for even 6 or so months since my current car is in good shape. That's why I am on hold until 12/31.

 

[Noflash]

Noflash said:
This morning I received an email threatening cancellation if they don't hear from me by 11/16. This is further proof to me that they are just stumbling forward as I have a hold until 12/1. I emailed this info back to them, since they can't see it.

I received exactly the same email this morning.
I'm going to figure out if I want to get back in the queue, or explicitly wait for clarifying legislation and risk cancellation.
And it may not hurt me if I can sell the car for more than I pay, then get back in line. I can wait.

I think the email is a direct indication that they know there's a looming problem with deliveries in December and maybe November as well.
But they made the Hold rules..... yet it's Tesla, rules change to suit them.

Tesla finally responded to me.

"Our email was to see if you still want your order. I do see that your order is on hold and we can leave your account as is."

Okey-dokey.

 

[mwdietertg]

Noflash said:
This morning I received an email threatening cancellation if they don't hear from me by 11/16. This is further proof to me that they are just stumbling forward as I have a hold until 12/1. I emailed this info back to them, since they can't see it.


Tesla finally responded to me.

"Our email was to see if you still want your order. I do see that your order is on hold and we can leave your account as is."

Okey-dokey.

Phew! Thanks for reporting back, glad it's just an effort to cleanup unwanted orders and not a push to force delivery before 2022.