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Tesla (Model S & X) no longer eligible for Ontario rebate?

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I stand by my original assertion that there is no EV you can buy that fits your needs today. If you don't need a replacement vehicle soon you could wait it out, or you could buy a used AWD vehicle to tide you over until there are options. On the used market you can find an AWD Tesla in the $90,000 range, and those too will come down in price the longer you can wait, though probably not enough to compete with a new model 3.

I can say that for true ice-storm hill conditions, you might want to consider keeping a winch in your vehicle, whatever you buy.

I agree, @anicolao, I really want a Model 3. I see some Volvo AWD EVs too, but like you say, a generation behind the future-thinking Teslas. And - yup - we learnt after the first tough winter to have winches in our cars (and jumper cables, and a shovel, and...) ;)
 
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Just noticed this while I was looking for the updated program guide, which isn't available yet...

"If you are an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) and you wish to have your vehicle be eligible for an EHVIP incentive, you must complete and submit the EHVIP New Eligible Vehicle Form at least 8 weeks before the vehicle will be eligible for green plates and an EHVIP incentive."

So Tesla would have to apply for the Model 3 at a minimum 8 weeks in advance, so it appeared in the Fuel Consumption guide on Feb 8th I think it was, so maybe around beginning of April it will show up on the EVIP page? I wonder how soon we will here of invites for the 3.
 
Just noticed this while I was looking for the updated program guide, which isn't available yet...

"If you are an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) and you wish to have your vehicle be eligible for an EHVIP incentive, you must complete and submit the EHVIP New Eligible Vehicle Form at least 8 weeks before the vehicle will be eligible for green plates and an EHVIP incentive."

So Tesla would have to apply for the Model 3 at a minimum 8 weeks in advance, so it appeared in the Fuel Consumption guide on Feb 8th I think it was, so maybe around beginning of April it will show up on the EVIP page? I wonder how soon we will here of invites for the 3.

It's very possible Tesla could have already applied but will not be listed until they are ready to sell the Model 3 here.
 
Instead, people would complain that the government makes systems that only rich people can work around, since the taxes would target affordable gas vehicles and you can skirt them by buying a Tesla.

In general, the fact of the matter is that most Canadians believe that the taxes should heavily tax the wealthy in order to provide essential services (medicine, education, etc.) and that the rich are most likely avoiding those taxes with complex schemes that the average person can't understand.

The top 1% income earners altogether account for 11% of all income earned in Canada, and pay 22% of all taxes collected (source). About 6,000 Canadians in this bracket avoided paying any tax at all, but they are a small portion of this 11% of all Canadian income earned (source). William Watson tries to make the case for high income earners getting some respect/thanks for their contribution to the tax pie, but I suspect his message doesn't generally resonate, though the graphic provided is good.

fp1128_total_income_c_mf-copy.png

Bottom line: on your $148,500 CAD Tesla, you'd pay $19,000+ in HST alone, enough to cover the entire cost of your own rebate. In other words, on a Tesla, your government "rebate" isn't the government giving you someone else's money, it's them giving you back your own money. On your $36,000 Nissan leaf, your HST would cover only about $4,500 of your incentive, leaving the government the need to find about $10,000 of other people's money to fund your purchase.

However such arguments are very unpopular, because the mere fact that you can afford a Tesla means you're in the top 1% and deserve to pay other people's rebates, but not your own.

The idea is you will still pay the $19,000 without the rebate. The $14,000 rebate will make no impact on sales of $100,000 plus cars. I think the changes to the program are wise and needed. The idea of the program is to move the general public from ICE to EV, not to give money to the rich.
 
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The idea of the program is to move the general public from ICE to EV, not to give money to the rich.

If the goal of the program is to move the general public from ICE to EV, why should economic status matter?

I am not saying this was the most cost effective means of helping in our "green" goals but it has never made much sense to me to interject "income levels" as a factor in the fight against climate change.

Frankly, if environmental impact is your primary concern, individual economic status shouldn't enter the equation.
 
If the goal of the program is to move the general public from ICE to EV, why should economic status matter?...

Because people who have less money are more likely to be deterred from buying an EV over an ICE for financial reasons. Total cost may be 50% of their equation. For the wealthy, cost may be 30% of the equation (I'm making up the %s, but you get the idea), so wealthy will buy EV anyway if they want to buy EV. Therefore, the argument goes that financial incentives mean more to lower-income people, and have a greater effect on the goal of reducing GHGEs overall if focused on that segment.

I agree with others who suggest shifting the tax burden from EV rebates towards more taxes for buying ICEs.

I wonder if Tesla does analysis to determine which of these is more important than others?
 
Because people who have less money are more likely to be deterred from buying an EV over an ICE for financial reasons. Total cost may be 50% of their equation. For the wealthy, cost may be 30% of the equation (I'm making up the %s, but you get the idea), so wealthy will buy EV anyway if they want to buy EV. Therefore, the argument goes that financial incentives mean more to lower-income people, and have a greater effect on the goal of reducing GHGEs overall if focused on that segment.

I agree with others who suggest shifting the tax burden from EV rebates towards more taxes for buying ICEs.

I wonder if Tesla does analysis to determine which of these is more important than others?

You might be right but this wasn’t true for me (at all). First...I don’t think I am wealthy. I have a young family, I have a mortgage and we own nice cars and a decent home. I live in Toronto but certainly not in a fancy neighbourhood.

I bought the S because it checked all the boxes of what made sense for my family. We travel to the States a lot, my kids are growing so I needed something with range, charging infrastructure and interior space. When I first drove the S I fell in love with the car. I had some issues with the Tesla sales guy and the rebate had just been reduced from $8,500 to $3,000. This was a HUGE factor in why I did NOT buy. I waited a year and in came the 14k rebate, so I bought one right away. That 14k helped.

If there was no rebate a *may* not have ever bought one. Is that a better scenario for the climate because in someone’s view I am “rich”? I do realize that for some, 14k might not mean a lot but I am sure I am not the only one who was influenced by the incentive. Are there better ways to do it? Maybe, but I still don’t get how wealth should enter the debate about zero emissions.
 
Might be a silly question, but is there any merit in waiting a little before ordering now that it seems pretty clear the $14K rebate is gone ? (On the hopes that it may come back either in the form of a smaller amount / or Tesla may take some active steps to get it back on). In other words, within a week of the rebate coming off, is now a particularly bad time in Ontario to place an order?
 
Might be a silly question, but is there any merit in waiting a little before ordering now that it seems pretty clear the $14K rebate is gone ? (On the hopes that it may come back either in the form of a smaller amount / or Tesla may take some active steps to get it back on). In other words, within a week of the rebate coming off, is now a particularly bad time in Ontario to place an order?

If you read my post above that’s exactly what I did but this time I have a feeling the rebate may never come back.
 
Election time optics at play. Vote liberal in June and wait for the rebate to come back. All depends on who is lobbying.

Politics at play. GM Canada has alot of pull in Ontario. Maybe if Tesla set up a battery plant or Manufactuing in Ontario then we could justify the rebate.

The bolt is an ugly gm/lg bastard. Sure you have range. But you cannot find a dealer willing to sell you one.

Model 3 for the win. Kathleen Wynne.
 
The idea is you will still pay the $19,000 without the rebate. The $14,000 rebate will make no impact on sales of $100,000 plus cars. I think the changes to the program are wise and needed. The idea of the program is to move the general public from ICE to EV, not to give money to the rich.

I'm not aware of data to either support or contradict your assertions. As I already noted it's not clear if:
  • more Teslas on the road leads to more desire for EVs among all buyers, simply by making EVs an object of desire; or
  • whether or not prospective Tesla buyers are influenced by the extra $14,000 cost
If you have data to support your assertion I am very interested.

I don't have data one way or another, but I will say that I chose the configuration of my second Model X in order to get the rebate, forgoing options that I really wanted in order to qualify. Though I can afford it, the extra $14,000 was an important factor in my personal decision making.

As someone who can afford these vehicles, I find it surprising that those who can't assume that those who can don't care about money. I have money because I have saved a very large fraction of my income for a very long time. One of the most influential things ever said to me, which I heard in my early 20s, was "Great wealth is not earned. It is accumulated." Truer words never spoken ... you cannot earn wealth by having a solid income -- you must also not spend your money. That includes buying cars of any description ... I worked for 10+ years before buying my first new vehicle of any kind. Cars, all cars, are simply a terrible use of $.
 
I'm not aware of data to either support or contradict your assertions. As I already noted it's not clear if:
  • more Teslas on the road leads to more desire for EVs among all buyers, simply by making EVs an object of desire; or
  • whether or not prospective Tesla buyers are influenced by the extra $14,000 cost
If you have data to support your assertion I am very interested.

I don't have data one way or another, but I will say that I chose the configuration of my second Model X in order to get the rebate, forgoing options that I really wanted in order to qualify. Though I can afford it, the extra $14,000 was an important factor in my personal decision making.

As someone who can afford these vehicles, I find it surprising that those who can't assume that those who can don't care about money. I have money because I have saved a very large fraction of my income for a very long time. One of the most influential things ever said to me, which I heard in my early 20s, was "Great wealth is not earned. It is accumulated." Truer words never spoken ... you cannot earn wealth by having a solid income -- you must also not spend your money. That includes buying cars of any description ... I worked for 10+ years before buying my first new vehicle of any kind. Cars, all cars, are simply a terrible use of $.

Poor ppl never understand how rich ppl get rich. The way rich manages the money is one key skill to make them rich. So, many rich who can afford buying S/X do care about 14K to make their decision. And if liberals think it is not important, it is completely wrong . One ICE in that price range could produce 3 normal ICE emissions.