Tesla Supercharger network

[smartypnz]

@Cottonwood, which SC was the "golden spike"? [emoji6]

I think that if the 'Golden Spike' is defined as coast to coast on a single hwy that Interstate 10 would be the only candidate and as yet to be completed.

 

[jerry33]

In two and a half years, I've only had one time where the range on the 85 would have been useful. (On a trip back from Yosemite) In my experience, the difference in range between the 60 and the 85 appears marginal and the utility greatly over-exagerrated. It only helps in very specific and infrequent use cases.

If you live anywhere other than in California, this is not the case. In my 2.5 years I've often needed the range.

 

[scaesare]

Let us not forget the entire DC / Baltimore area with exactly one supercharger,Woodbridge VA, on the southern boundaries and a temporary (under powered) location in Bethesda with 2 stalls. This is for a population of over 6 million people.

Out of curiosity, what is your context for this? Is it primarily to support charging for folks who can't charge at home (condo/apt. etc...?)

I ask because I've found the chargers on I-95 to allow travel North and South from my home in just outside of DC to be pretty easy. Just got back from a ~1200 mile round trip to Martha's Vineyard using them without any need for the somewhat awkward Bethesda location.

I do agree that the E-W corridor needs some help, and that I-81 beginning to be fleshed out is welcome...

 

[K5ING]

Houston is fourth, but San Antonio is seventh. But that's besides the point. Population is nearly meaningless alone because Texas cities are freakin' huge. If you draw a city border large enough, you will get huge populations. If you look at density at a city-, county-, metropolitan-, or state-level, Texas is nowhere near the top of any lists. Total population, population density, and the number of current and near-future Tesla drivers is what I imagine Tesla is using to determine where to put Supercharger locations. California has many of the most populous cities, many of the most populous metropolitan areas, very densely populated at the city, county, metro, and state levels, and has the largest population at the state level. On top of that, it is home to, by far, the most Tesla drivers in the world. This was always true... even before the Model S and Superchargers.

I'm absolutely positive that no matter what they do, many people will complain and want more. Adding Superchargers in one location doesn't take away anything from another, so I'm not sure why there is so much bitterness. We should all take a few steps back and look at the Supercharger progress around the world and just remember where we were today in 2012. It was almost exactly three years ago that Tesla announced the Superchargers. If anyone is not impressed, then it's really quite unfair to Tesla. The progress has been tremendous.

One more thought... Maybe if Tesla didn't have to spend resources fighting for the right to sell in places like Texas, they'll have more resources to place more Supercharger locations.

Just to put the size of Texas cities into perspective, here is a rough map of Connecticut overlaid onto the DFW area. The new supercharger in Denton is circled in red.

 

[ZBB]

If you live anywhere other than in California, this is not the case. In my 2.5 years I've often needed the range.

I'm also a 60 owner and disagree with the attitude that 60s are for local driving only. We did a 4500 mile road trip in Jul-Aug 2014 from AZ to BC and back -- including some non-Supercharger stretches that involved charging at a Tesla service center, lucking into staying a hotel that added chargers a week or so before we arrived (original plan was to use a J1772 that was ~1/2 mile from the hotel), and using a combination of 120V and a 30A J1772 when visiting the small island where my in-laws live. We visited Tucson well over a year before the Casa Grande Supercharger was open, and visited the Grand Canyon with only using the Flagstaff Supercharger -- in both cases, we were able to use the UMC for overnight charging at/near our destination. The infrastructure has only gotten better -- we've done a couple other trips to SoCal, one was Supercharger only, and the other had a HPWC at the hotel we chose. We're planning another road trip for next summer (also AZ to BC, but looking at different routes that are now enabled).

The 60 has been a great choice. I'm glad I spent the $2k for Supercharging, and have never felt the need for a larger battery. The only downside is that Supercharging when going from Supercharger to Supercharger takes a bit longer -- but only since 60s max out at 105KW, and need to charge higher into the taper than an 85 or 90. But that adds maybe 10 minutes extra at some charge stops if you need to more than ~150-160 RM to make the next Supercharger. If I were to replace my current Model S, I'd get a 70 instead of an 85 or 90...

 

[bollar]

Houston is fourth, but San Antonio is seventh. But that's besides the point. Population is nearly meaningless alone because Texas cities are freakin' huge. If you draw a city border large enough, you will get huge populations. If you look at density at a city-, county-, metropolitan-, or state-level, Texas is nowhere near the top of any lists. Total population, population density, and the number of current and near-future Tesla drivers is what I imagine Tesla is using to determine where to put Supercharger locations. California has many of the most populous cities, many of the most populous metropolitan areas, very densely populated at the city, county, metro, and state levels, and has the largest population at the state level. On top of that, it is home to, by far, the most Tesla drivers in the world. This was always true... even before the Model S and Superchargers.

I think in SMSAs, so Los Angeles is #2, Dallas/Ft. Worth #4 & Houston #5 -- but no matter. I'm not really wound up about it -- but I do believe that Tesla's planning misses taking advantage of high-density regional travel patterns. According to Polk, there are somewhere between 1500 and 2000 Models S in the DFW SMSA, but what we consider to be day trips, like Shreveport, Texarkana, Abilene and weekend trips like Little Rock & Lubbock aren't possible today and all have an AADT greater than 20K vehicles a day -- which, BTW, is greater than parts of I-5.

Anyway, once those gaps are filled in 2016 or 2017, I see already strong Texas sales accelerating since people can drive to their hometowns and alma maters.

 

[dmckinstry]

If you live anywhere other than in California, this is not the case. In my 2.5 years I've often needed the range.

I certainly needed it in going from Harris Ranch to Barstow and from The Dalles to Ritzville. Of course the latter is no longer an issue with Kennewick in place.

 

[Cottonwood]

I think that if the 'Golden Spike' is defined as coast to coast on a single hwy that Interstate 10 would be the only candidate and as yet to be completed.

I purposely stayed out of the Golden Spike definition.

If you want to use the "coast to coast on a single numbered Interstate" as the threshold, then I-90 is only waiting for Erie, PA.

If you allow a pair of Interstates, then I-15/I-70 was finished with Columbia, MO in September this year.

If you use the crazy, Elon/Kimball-redo route, then I think it was finished with Cranberry, PA in April 2014. That is only 1.5 years ago for some perspective...

 

[RiverBrick]

I certainly needed it in going from Harris Ranch to Barstow and from The Dalles to Ritzville. Of course the latter is no longer an issue with Kennewick in place.

The former is not a problem either, since Mojave opened.

Otherwise, the ultra California-centric view expressed in another post is rather amusing. Most sites one or two hops away from me on the 2014 map will not open until 2016 or later. Try driving from NYC to to Montreal in January without a long detour or stop for L2 charging. Are New York or Montreal (17th largest metro area in the USA + Canada) "in the middle of nowhere," or do drought-stricken Californians not understand what Winter tires, severe cold, and sand and snow do to range?

 

[vortexz]

I have a few questions about how superchargers work:
How do they generate electricity ? I've seen some of them have solar panels but I belive not all of them have ?
Do they have to pay for that electricity ,so it costs Tesla money for every charged vehicle ?

 

[Zythryn]

I have a few questions about how superchargers work:
How do they generate electricity ? I've seen some of them have solar panels but I belive not all of them have ?
Do they have to pay for that electricity ,so it costs Tesla money for every charged vehicle ?

All SC are connected to the electrical grid.
Some produce some power via solar panels, and a few also have battery backup.
The grand plan is for all to have solar and batteries, however they will still be grid tied.

 

[evp]

I have a few questions about how superchargers work:
....
Do they have to pay for that electricity, so it costs Tesla money for every charged vehicle ?

Yes they do have to pay. A nice crowded afternoon at Gilroy probably costs Tesla $2/minute. Even the few SCs with solar panels can't keep up with the charging rate of a single MS, let alone 12 of them.
(Note: Those more familiar with electrical rates in California, feel free to make a better estimate.)

 

[wdolson]

I think JB Straubel or Elon himself said in an interview that the electricity costs for the superchargers is down in the noise compared to all the other expenses Tesla has. Once the capital expansion slows down and the superchargers get more traffic because there are 1 million+ Teslas on the road, it might become more of a concern.

Even if they put solar panels on all superchargers in the world, some will remain very dependent on the grid because solar gets less efficient the closer you get to the poles and some places are too overcast to get all that much energy out of solar at least part of the year. Places that get lots of sun will probably get most if not all their power from solar, especially when battery arrays are installed.

I wonder what they are going to do about keeping solar panels clean in agricultural areas. My sister installed solar panels on the roof of her new house in Bakersfield, but the efficiency dropped through the floor the first year because of all the dust that collected on them. She said she would have to wash them about once a week or every other week to keep them working. When I lived in Bakersfield, even in town, everything gets coated with a patina of dust kicked up from agriculture, even indoors. Dusting the furniture with a damp rag results in mud on the furniture.

Solar panels are also useless there in the winter when the Tule fogs are happening.

 

[dhanson865]

I think JB Straubel or Elon himself said in an interview that the electricity costs for the superchargers is down in the noise compared to all the other expenses Tesla has. Once the capital expansion slows down and the superchargers get more traffic because there are 1 million+ Teslas on the road, it might become more of a concern.

Even if they put solar panels on all superchargers in the world, some will remain very dependent on the grid because solar gets less efficient the closer you get to the poles and some places are too overcast to get all that much energy out of solar at least part of the year. Places that get lots of sun will probably get most if not all their power from solar, especially when battery arrays are installed.

I wonder what they are going to do about keeping solar panels clean in agricultural areas. My sister installed solar panels on the roof of her new house in Bakersfield, but the efficiency dropped through the floor the first year because of all the dust that collected on them. She said she would have to wash them about once a week or every other week to keep them working. When I lived in Bakersfield, even in town, everything gets coated with a patina of dust kicked up from agriculture, even indoors. Dusting the furniture with a damp rag results in mud on the furniture.

Solar panels are also useless there in the winter when the Tule fogs are happening.

The greater the tilt the more the panels clean themselves.

Some people don't clean their panels at all. Apparently others install them at a flatter angle and have more issues.

 

[Drucifer]

I clean mine 2x a year, but it has pretty minimal effect on performance. I clean them mostly for aesthetics (get the pollen off before it semi-permanently adheres to the panels).

 

[hill]

The greater the tilt the more the panels clean themselves...... snip....

double edged sword - the steeper the angle, the lesser sun power will be attainable during the highest azimuth of the day ... unless you live near either of the polar circles.

........ snip ....... solar gets less efficient the closer you get to the poles and some places are too overcast to get all that much energy out of solar at least part of the year. Places that get lots of sun will probably get most if not all their power from solar ........... snip......

that's another double edged sword. The sunniest spots in the US are typically Texas New Mexico Arizona etc during tbeir summers, where temperatures can easily be above 110 Fahrenheit. Those black panels get mighty hot. And heat cripples photovoltaic efficiency. On a measly 95 degree August day here in Orange County, our 7.1kW AC rated system will easily lose a full kW of production. Conversely we've had very cool June weather over the years, & our 7.1 kW system will generate over 8 kW periodically.



.

 

[smartypnz]

I purposely stayed out of the Golden Spike definition.

If you want to use the "coast to coast on a single numbered Interstate" as the threshold, then I-90 is only waiting for Erie, PA.

If you allow a pair of Interstates, then I-15/I-70 was finished with Columbia, MO in September this year.

If you use the crazy, Elon/Kimball-redo route, then I think it was finished with Cranberry, PA in April 2014. That is only 1.5 years ago for some perspective...

Agree, but only beef I would have with I-90 is it shares a large amount of asphalt with i-80

 

[Cottonwood]

Agree, but only beef I would have with I-90 is it shares a large amount of asphalt with i-80

Really...that is less than 10%. I-90 is 3,021 miles from Seattle to Boston with less than 284 miles coincident with I-80 (Lake Station, IN to Lorain, OH).

References:

• Interstate 90 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
• Google Maps: Lake Station, IN to Lorain, OH

 

[Fiver]

I was disappointed when I saw Tooele go in because it would have been quite inconvenient for north/south travel on I-15/I-84. The SLC location is much better.

I'm pretty sure SLC wasn't in the original plan at all. It was Park City. Tesla putting in a charger in the heart of a city made up almost entirely of houses with garages isn't typical. Park City also has ski resorts, and is about the halfway point from Tooele to Evanston WY, which is the next supercharger going in for the 2016 push across I-80.
I guess more superchargers are always a good thing though, and there's still a chance for a Park City SC location. It's right off 80, has the largest ski resort in the US, as well as another one that is skiing only. There are tons of shopping and eating establishments in kimball jct)

 

[vortexz]

Yes they do have to pay. A nice crowded afternoon at Gilroy probably costs Tesla $2/minute. Even the few SCs with solar panels can't keep up with the charging rate of a single MS, let alone 12 of them.
(Note: Those more familiar with electrical rates in California, feel free to make a better estimate.)

how can they afford to pay all this electricity ?
I belive they monthly electricity bill is gigantic.
Imagine how big it will be when model 3 comes out !