I'm going to imagine you quoted me on accident, since we are saying the same thing? I think it's bizarre that people are arguing against the idea that Tesla should've first validated. It's like they're from... MARS.
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Because his life is irrelevant compared to "the mission".
It's time for Elon Musk to go. It's quite obvious he has no clue how to run a car company. Maybe he should focus on products that do not involve consumers, like rockets. At least if a rocket explodes, it's somewhat expected. Nobody expects safety features when riding atop a tank of liquid hydrogen. But when you pull back a vehicle safety feature "out of an abundance of caution" for failure to adequately test it in the first place, then Houston we have a major, major problem at the highest corporate levels.
Here we have owners who have purchased a vehicle over $80,000 (some over $140,000) who are actually arguing against not having the most basic safety features. Hey guys, maybe we should also remove ABS from your cars and disable the airbags. Apparently it's all okay with you.
Here we have owners who have purchased a vehicle over $80,000 (some over $140,000) who are actually arguing against not having the most basic safety features. Hey guys, maybe we should also remove ABS from your cars and disable the airbags. Apparently it's all okay with you.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
“Automatic Emergency Braking, a new collision Avoidance Assist feature, is designed to automatically engage the brakes to reduce the impact of an unavoidable frontal collision with another vehicle. The brakes disengage when you press hard on the accelerator pedal, release the brake pedal, or sharply turn the steering wheel.”
It doesn't claim to prevent a crash it just claims to reduce the intensity. I don't think AEB has saved anyone's life, it's only reduced injuries. I'm not sure why you think it's a life or death feature.
Look at actual deaths in a Tesla. We have:
* falling off the side of a cliff
* slamming into a concrete wall at high speed
* running under a semi trailer at high speed without trying to brake or turn
* rear ending a street sweeper at high speed without trying to brake or turn
maybe I missed one or two but all of these happened before the current 2.5 HW came out. None of them were prevented by AEB.
It takes an accident of a very specific type and intensity for AEB to make the life or death difference. To fast/hard and nothing will save you, too slow and you'd survive without AEB, the Goldilocks accident is a very small window for this equation.
I don't think we will see new deaths that could have been prevented by AEB in the few weeks a small portion of the fleet is waiting for 2.5 HW to enable AEB.
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I get the feeling Elon doesn't give a sh*t about Tesla. Why should he, he is on to much cooler stuff like rockets and tunnels to save him commute time. I'm not as smart as Elon, and I know I've had many projects where after I proved I could do it I lost all interest. Must be worse for someone like Elon.
Elon is too preoccupied with other things to devote his mental energy to leading Tesla. I agree with time for a new CEO.
Elon is too preoccupied with other things to devote his mental energy to leading Tesla. I agree with time for a new CEO.
What a piece of crap junior high school argument. You can lose your legs in an accident, suffer brain damage, or break your neck. But apparently that doesn't matter to you. A study of Volvos with low speed AEB showed 33% reduction in bodily harm.
ALL OF THE EVIDENCE IS THAT AEB IS A BIG STEP IN SAFETY.
Here are some examples:
AP1: Watch Tesla's Automatic Emergency Braking System avoid a nasty accident
Safety Technologies
Automatic brakes may have saved lives in the Berlin Christmas truck attack
(You are a perfect example of why a non-owner stockholder should be prevented from trying to post in discussions that matter to the safety of owners. You create some stupid dichotomy (no accident or death) and then justify exclusion of a safety feature based on your ignorance of facts. Shame on you.)
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I can kind of see your point, but none your links show an example of life/death situation for the vehicle customer (last one suggests life/death, but it's for pedestrians and obviously the auto braking didn't prevent all deaths since a determined actor can override it). It's all about reducing injuries for passengers inside the car.
Dude, I just linked a few things. If you want to argue against the Volvo study or the general agreement that AEB will reduce harm simply because I only linked those articles out of the zillion out there, then go for it. It'd be stupid, but I won't get in your way.
And I don't want to be a pedant (who am I kidding? I love it!), but the standard is the prevention of bodily harm. Life/death is a false dichotomy. I would never say, "Hey, I'm a paraplegic, but I'm not dead. See! I told you we didn't need AEB!"
you guys think elon is the brain behind all this??He is just a puppet! Like zuckerberg is /was for facebook. Thats why these guys fly by the seat of their pants more or less. Do some in depth research on this musk guy and dig around a bit. He is just the face of tesla.
On the one hand i think the model s car is cool and drives amazing but is of average luxury if not subpar for a 90k+ car. The whole FSD/AP thing is hype and a way to get more $$$ for the item. Tesla doesnt seem to validate much before it releases it and knows the fanboi crown will just rah rah tesla no matter what.Even as they change cars willy nilly month to month and you plop down your hard earned cash on a car thats upgraded and costs less a few weeks later so your depreciation increases.Sure any car is a poor investment but a car with revolving tech is far worse depreciation wise then any high end ICE car. I just cannot see an audi r8 depreciate like the model s...or a lambroghini or ferrari or bently or maserati drop like a model s....i may be wrong but people but those other cars i mention for the car itself-not the technology in it so the car itself doesnt change much and usually goes up in price so buying used is more stable.I think the opposite is true for tesla. the newer s model out is cheaper then the one 6 months ago to buy and includes more that the one 6 months ago you have to pay for extra. This is a *sugar* way to run a company and will piss off more people that are thinking of jumping in then the fan boi's who will buy a new car no matter what.
Model s is way overpriced but(and tesla knows this) its the only full ev in the game with style and range and infastructure. So thats a huge bonus. When the new model 3LR-d comes out why would anyone buy a model s 75/85d??? unless the 3 drives like crap. All the model s i see around only usualy have 2 people in the car- maybe a baby in the rear seat but a model 3 lrd can fit this scenario just fine.
Tesla is buying time making $$$ untill other companies wakeup and realize there is a market for cool looking ev cars that can get 400 miles on a charge. Its just a matter of time.So if you buy now just drive it till it dies(i would say 10-12 yrs max)
On the one hand i think the model s car is cool and drives amazing but is of average luxury if not subpar for a 90k+ car. The whole FSD/AP thing is hype and a way to get more $$$ for the item. Tesla doesnt seem to validate much before it releases it and knows the fanboi crown will just rah rah tesla no matter what.Even as they change cars willy nilly month to month and you plop down your hard earned cash on a car thats upgraded and costs less a few weeks later so your depreciation increases.Sure any car is a poor investment but a car with revolving tech is far worse depreciation wise then any high end ICE car. I just cannot see an audi r8 depreciate like the model s...or a lambroghini or ferrari or bently or maserati drop like a model s....i may be wrong but people but those other cars i mention for the car itself-not the technology in it so the car itself doesnt change much and usually goes up in price so buying used is more stable.I think the opposite is true for tesla. the newer s model out is cheaper then the one 6 months ago to buy and includes more that the one 6 months ago you have to pay for extra. This is a *sugar* way to run a company and will piss off more people that are thinking of jumping in then the fan boi's who will buy a new car no matter what.
Model s is way overpriced but(and tesla knows this) its the only full ev in the game with style and range and infastructure. So thats a huge bonus. When the new model 3LR-d comes out why would anyone buy a model s 75/85d??? unless the 3 drives like crap. All the model s i see around only usualy have 2 people in the car- maybe a baby in the rear seat but a model 3 lrd can fit this scenario just fine.
Tesla is buying time making $$$ untill other companies wakeup and realize there is a market for cool looking ev cars that can get 400 miles on a charge. Its just a matter of time.So if you buy now just drive it till it dies(i would say 10-12 yrs max)
I don't think that was AEB, I suspect that that was a combination of TACC and FCW. Because AEB wouldn't have fired yet since the driver had time to swerve and avoid the accident.
I think people, especially the news sites, still don't understand exactly what Tesla's AEB system is.
Electric700
Active Member
Wow, I'm surprised by some of the comments that are so critical of Tesla's leadership. The AEB feature is only being turned off for a few weeks on new vehicles. I think that Tesla must have discovered something after the validation process and subsequent deployment to new cars. Ones manufactured prior to July of this year should be unaffected. I would be thankful that Tesla has my safety in mind, as I wouldn't want an unneeded / unsafe AEB activation to occur while driving.
Tesla leadership got us this far, and I think we have much more to look forward to.
Tesla leadership got us this far, and I think we have much more to look forward to.
Ok. So? Is your argument that my bad google link proves that AEB doesn't reduce accidents and chances of bodily harm?
Please make the argument that AEB doesn't reduce risk of accident and severity of accident. I'm sure every car manufacturer and safety organization is quivering with excitement. I mean, once you show them that some guy posted a link in which the author got something wrong about something, they'll cave!
How is pulling back a feature that is deemed issues after release any different that a recall ? Very recently all automakers recalled their cars due to airbag issues.
Why don't you go to the IIHS website where they spell it out? P100D got average rating for roof strength (less than 4x weight ratio). NOTE: All BMW, MBs, and other luxury cars aced this. None bragged about breaking the machine (which apparently was not due to Tesla's car but rather a mechanical fault in the machine which Tesla shadily and inaccurately touted as somehow due to their superior design).
60D was the test vehicle for the low end and it passed the 4x ratio barely.
The problem is that (i) Tesla doesn't tell its customers that "bleeding edge" can lead to actual bleeding, as a result of untested/compromised safety features and (ii) no one else on the road is asking to be involved in accidents caused by "bleeding edge" features on Teslas they share the road with (for example, the "Cadillac" or Hyundai driver who happens to be driving behind a Tesla that has a false positive AEB activation).
Calling a feature "bleeding edge" isn't an excuse to cut corners on testing. An improperly tested new feature isn't "bleeding edge"-- it's just defective. Besides, as many have noted, AEB isn't a particularly novel feature any more. If Tesla is cutting corners on testing, that isn't because of the unknowables of new technology, it's because it wants to rush development to catch up with everybody else or because it insists on cutting costs by omitting existing technology.
You mean other than Tesla saying their AEB doesn't?
Reduce severity, yes it can, as a last resort. FCW should trigger first giving the driver the ability to mitigate the issue.
Yeah, I also looked it up. It's true. The roof crush performance was sub par. It's really interesting that there are still people repeating claims of safest vehicle. I'm starting to think we just need to take everything Tesla says officially with a grain of salt. Every statement seems to need an asterisk...
timvracer
Member
The cause of injury and/or death is not AEB, -- it is getting into an accident. Those who talk here as if AEB somehow will prevent such injuries or deaths are sorely mistaken. It hopefully will help reduce deaths/injuries, but please, accidents are awful. Recalls happen ALL THE TIME.
I just had to take my Honda Accord in for an airbag recall where they discovered the child passenger airbag mechanism had a defect. It is 5 years old. Where is all the uproar on Honda selling a feature that wasn't tested, or working? Where is the sanctimony, the utter frustration that a car manufacturer would DARE to allow such a defect to exist for so many years. Don't they test their cars??? Don't they care about children?
They found an issue, and out of caution, disabled it until they can sort it out. I am guessing it was a false positive issue. The fact is, I'd rather NOT have AEB than have false positives which can cause other accidents on the freeway. The Tesla is an incredibly safe car, and I'd argue the most dangerous part about it is over-reliance on AP2.
Because AEB guarantees little.
I just had to take my Honda Accord in for an airbag recall where they discovered the child passenger airbag mechanism had a defect. It is 5 years old. Where is all the uproar on Honda selling a feature that wasn't tested, or working? Where is the sanctimony, the utter frustration that a car manufacturer would DARE to allow such a defect to exist for so many years. Don't they test their cars??? Don't they care about children?
They found an issue, and out of caution, disabled it until they can sort it out. I am guessing it was a false positive issue. The fact is, I'd rather NOT have AEB than have false positives which can cause other accidents on the freeway. The Tesla is an incredibly safe car, and I'd argue the most dangerous part about it is over-reliance on AP2.
Because AEB guarantees little.
Elon doesn't respond publicly on this forum. Are you saying I'm wrong? Google is your friend....you can validate this yourself.
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