My post was specifically in relation to a law suit against tesla for failing to deliver the feature on time.
Compensation isn’t based on how much you feel it’s worth, it’s based on the actual cost.
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[uk] UltraSonic Sensors removal/TV replacement performance
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Compensation isn’t based on how much you feel it’s worth, it’s based on the actual cost.
Don't be silly. How do you think the vast majority of personal injury cases, commercial litigation, tort etc is quantified? The loss of amenity, value, worth - call it what you will. NOT the cost, which is often unquantifiable or even zero in many cases.
This isn’t personal injury, even if it was, there are clear guidelines based on said injury and the impact on the individual up to and including death. Where there are ongoing care costs, they factored into the award.
Commercial litigation will be based on the value of the contract and any consequential clauses in the contract. That is quantifiable, you can’t claim for loss of income without evidence of the loss.
There is no equivalent to sticking a wet finer in the air damages awards in the U.K (aka punitive damages). Damages have to be reasonable and reflect reality. They also can’t be remote, Tesla are liable for not delivering the function but they are not liable for you driving your car into a post in the mean time.
One option may be that tesla have to buy the car back but only if you bought it direct. You’ll still have to pay for the use of the car up until that point. Cars don’t depreciate in a straight line so the cost may not be proportional to the expected life of the car and the time you have had it.
Edit: just to add I’m not defending Tesla, I’m just setting out the reality of the situation.
They absolutely should have not removed the old function without the replacement being ready.
If Tesla saved that amount of money from removing USS then I could understand why they did what they did!
As it is though, they saved $82.5 million, not $8.25 billion - assuming $150 per car (although the guy that did the initial analysis of the decision reckoned it was more like $113).
I'd suggest it's not even as simple as that since this was all announced back at the start of October 2022, so there's 5 and a bit months passed since then, and there will have been an unknown proportion of cars being delivered in the latter stages of the year that still had USS.
$82.5m is still a decent amount of money that has been saved, to be sure, but it remains to be seen if how the handling of it will have a commensurate impact on sales long term. It's not a great look to be 5 and a bit months on with no replacement system in sight, both in terms of Tesla's brand image as tech leaders but also their attitude towards customers.
The key leadership might have been distracted. Last Autumn, didn't Mr Musk take a few dozen of his "top Tesla engineers" off to Twitter - which promptly broke - and has likely been completely distracted since then with his descent into mania?
Irrespective - Tesla's reputation for solving some of the most difficult problems in autonomous driving now seems very far-fetched.
GlynG, Totally agree, my early cars did not have sensors and used to park it...but in those days bumpers were bumpers, all about the same height and heavy chrome, so even a slight touch caused no damage. Yes I too used to open the door to get a better view of the curb and distance, I tried opening the Tesla drivers door when parking but the car shuts down and the seat returns to easy entry.
You pointed out the Vauxhall issue, I believe it was the Velox model that gave the bad name, but later Lancia introduced the Lancia Beta, very popular car but had serious rust issues with some engine falling out, that defect was the death of Lancia and the brand disappeared from the UK market.
You also pointed out that Tesla produced 550,000 without USS, that's 550,000 possible dissatisfied customers, with each moan being passed tenfold to other motorists. Its like throwing a pebble into a pool the ripple in the water travels very far.
Dear Tesla owners, I am convinced that Tesla have acted deceitfully and dishonestly with regards to the USS issue and I strongly feel that its a scam, where they take full payment for EAP and all advertised features and don't deliver at the point of sale. Tesla introduce a disclaimer a few weeks before delivery disguised to mislead customers stating that its only for a short period of time, an improved system through Vision, when clearly they know otherwise. The sending of the disclaimer which not everybody is sent is timed to to cause most inconvenience in not accepting the vehicle, if customers were informed at the time of placing the order, I believe it would impact sales.
Its pointless continuing with these threads as our views are not taken seriously, but we are fortunate in the UK that we have bodies that can take action on the behalf of consumers. I have contacted Citizens Advice with my complaint that I have not received goods that were advertised and have been paid for at the point of accepting the order and taking delivery of the vehicle. Citizens Advice have informed me that having evaluated my complaint they have forward it to Trading Standards.
Dear owners if you feel you have been deceived or feel short changed, I would strongly suggest that you also contact Citizens Advice, the more complaints the greater interest in the case. What was interesting and was noted that Teslas continue selling vehicles in quarter one in 2023 taking full payment whilst advertising EAP features without advising customers of the restrictions and functions that will not be available when the vehicle is collected.
If trading standards start breathing down Teslas neck Tesla may take our concerns seriously and prompt a solution.
Good point, on reflection the day after I accepted the disclaimer, I contacted Tesla to cancel the order, as previously said they gave assurances, which I fortunately followed up in writing and was assured it was a temporary inconvenience while the system was transferred over to Vision and features would be fully reinstated in the New Year. What was interesting in correspondence that I was offered the opportunity as I had not yet picked up the vehicle for a full EAP refund. Fortunately I replied that its not an option as those features were of upmost importance for my needs.
We are still in the "New Year", and will be for another ~10 months, aren't we?
MP3Mike: That would be up to a judge to decide along with for a what constitutes a short period of time. New Year is celebrated on the first of January not in Feb - December.We are still in the "New Year", and will be for another ~10 months, aren't we?
Perhaps their strategy is to do an Elon / Fox News?
"Surely noone takes any of our communications seriously? They are purely for entertainment purposes, and based on past experience you should not rely on any statements made by our employees."
There's a glimmer of hope this morning as FSD v11.3.1 seems to be rolling out wider to real people which is single stack and thought to be a trigger for this, although no notable mention of parking
I got a taster experience today. Snow obstructing the sensors made them unreliable. Poor visibility due to cameras being wet and dirty. Stupid parking lines made by different colour of block paving rather than paint mostly invisible due to being covered in grime and the wet. Not my best parking effort.
FYI Tesla: “Clean the cameras or wait for them to clear” is a really helpful message on a motorway. I can’t clean them and they won’t clear.
FYI Tesla: “Clean the cameras or wait for them to clear” is a really helpful message on a motorway. I can’t clean them and they won’t clear.
I wonder if the recent very heavy snow in California might make their 22 year old engineers take inclement weather seriously from now on?
Sun is rising or setting? Cameras blocked
Mist, drizzle or fog? Cameras blocked
Snow? Everything blocked
Salt on the roads? Everything blocked but - BONUS - wipers go berserk too!
Just to add my 2p worth to the discussion, I purchased an inventory M3P in January to take advantage of the price reductions and a decent trade-in value. At the time I spoke to the representative in the Notts showroom about USS and she assured me that Teslavision was coming "very soon" and would actually out-perform USS. She even referred me to a promo article about it. On the basis of this, I proceeded. Perhaps this was naive but given that a parking aid shouldn't be anywhere near as tricky as FSD, I believed that they could deliver it and, as promised, soon. I was not asked to sign a disclaimer but really that's irrelevant.
I opted to back up my discussion with an email as soon as I'd returned home and Tesla followed up with the same promises as before. I have a copy of this. Subsequently I emailed agan two weeks ago to check the progress of TeslaVision and received no reply - only when I followed up again did I get a reply with the same information but now with a "no defined release date" statement. I responded appropriately to express dissatisfaction but no reply.
Whilst I knew that the car would be delivered without USS I was promised that it would be replaced with something at least as good - this clearly hasn't happened.
I'm quite old school when it comes to something like this and will soldier on with parking the old-fashioned way - I just take extra care and the wife jumps out to assist where it's tight. I had under-estimated just how cr@p the view out of the back of a Y is, particularly at night, so that also doesn't help.
But all of that said and irrespective of whether I can still park the bloody thing or not, bottom line is that I was promised replacement functionality for the USS which simply hasn't materialised - that is indefensible which I guess Tesla actually knows. Whether they do something about it (maybe Teslavision will surprise us all?) or try to play hardball, who knows. If it's the latter, I'd be up for the fight based on principle alone. I'm pretty confident that unless Tesla delivers with Teslavision, then this is one they'll lose and lose very badly. Maybe they just need to suck it up and start retrofitting now.
I opted to back up my discussion with an email as soon as I'd returned home and Tesla followed up with the same promises as before. I have a copy of this. Subsequently I emailed agan two weeks ago to check the progress of TeslaVision and received no reply - only when I followed up again did I get a reply with the same information but now with a "no defined release date" statement. I responded appropriately to express dissatisfaction but no reply.
Whilst I knew that the car would be delivered without USS I was promised that it would be replaced with something at least as good - this clearly hasn't happened.
I'm quite old school when it comes to something like this and will soldier on with parking the old-fashioned way - I just take extra care and the wife jumps out to assist where it's tight. I had under-estimated just how cr@p the view out of the back of a Y is, particularly at night, so that also doesn't help.
But all of that said and irrespective of whether I can still park the bloody thing or not, bottom line is that I was promised replacement functionality for the USS which simply hasn't materialised - that is indefensible which I guess Tesla actually knows. Whether they do something about it (maybe Teslavision will surprise us all?) or try to play hardball, who knows. If it's the latter, I'd be up for the fight based on principle alone. I'm pretty confident that unless Tesla delivers with Teslavision, then this is one they'll lose and lose very badly. Maybe they just need to suck it up and start retrofitting now.
cliff harris
Member
Absolutely. I strongly urge everyone affected by this to email their tesla sales contact and tell them, in no uncertain terms what you think of the way this has been handled. Its clear that they dont understand how annoying it is.
Its basically a californian company not understanding the concept of tight parking spaces or narrow roads. Roads in Los angeles are about a billion miles wide.
Tesla are not selling cheap economy runarounds, but luxury high end, apparently high tech cars. They cannot afford to be feature-inferior to a 10 year old rustbox from Ford. They need to be told that they fail that comparison right now. I've sent text messages and multiple emails to Tesla about this. You have paid for new cars, with modern functionality, and you deserve to have your voice heard on the topic.
Contact Citizens Advice and lodge a complaint, it will be passed to Trading Standards as this can only be described as a scam, fleecing money out of you without delivering goods.
MrBadger
Badger out
Just watched Chucks first full stack drive - hallelujah! He has a car with USS and, as expected, USS functionality and auto park still looks to be there. Will be interesting to see if any non USS cars have it.
Thought it looked pretty good. TBH a significant amount of what he showed we could have right now. I see no reason why a UK single stack release would not function significantly as per his first drive which, as expected, concentrated very much on what was previously the domain of highways.
It was very impressive, especially if you ignore the point where it almost rear ended the pick up truck.
You're right though, the highways part looks really confident, and with a few tweaks added for European lane etiquette it could/should be a big improvement on the current offering.
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