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Will the new CCS enabled superchargers have long cables?

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We've seen the announcement that Tesla will open 3,500 supercharger stalls (probably new ones) to use by CCS cars and, announcing this in concert with the White House, will presumably receive federal money to do this. The question is, just how big an opening of the network is this?


In particular, none of the supposedly "leaked" diagrams of Tesla's "magic dock" -- sometimes depicted as a NACS to CCS adapter built into the stall which can be unlocked and used by CCS cars, and sometimes shown as a dual-cord stall -- show an ordinary length charging cord. All Tesla drivers know it can be fairly hard to get the Tesla cord into their car's port which is right at the rear corner of the car. No other car has the port exactly at that corner (or the opposite front) though the Lexus and Mitsubishi have it somewhat close, and maybe an e-Tron could pull it off with a slightly longer cord. Hyunda/Kias could use it if they parked half a parking space over which we don't want.

Tesla could, to be sneaky, keep their cord and say "we support CCS" but for very few cars. They don't care that much about the bad press this would bring. Tesla cords now use liquid cooling and you can't just stick an extension cord on them.

The expansion is not that much. Tesla has 17,000 chargers now and says it will have double that (34,000) in the same timeframe, so only 10% of their stalls will support CCS. These will presumably be only new installations, and possibly not all the stalls at a station to boot. There are some places like Oregon where getting grants requires having a 350kW station, which Tesla can presumably support with their new V4 supercharger which handles up to 1,000v.

The WH announcement talks of even more money beyond the $5B NEVI program being administered by the states. That program puts a lot of rules on stations which don't match the way Tesla designs stations -- and usually stupid rules, though a few of them, like support for plug-and-charge and exporting stall availability status to appear in other apps, make sense. Screens, credit cards and 150kW minimums at all times on 4 ports are mistakes that come from the government and lobbyists designing your charging station.

Tesla has many other avenues to discourage non-Tesla use of these 10% of their chargers. They will charge CCS drivers more, but they are also offering a $1/month membership according to reports which will bring the price down. Nothing would forbid them from giving power priority to Teslas (or members) except at the 4 NEVI stalls. And they could make only a few stalls support CCS, making the stations less attractive to CCS drivers. (If a station has 32 stalls and only 4 support your car, you may feel less inclined to use it.)

Or will they, as they have said they want to do, embrace the CCS cars -- give them good prices, make all stalls support CCS and put longer cords on all stalls, at least for a CCS cord?

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"Tesla Supercharger" by Open Grid Scheduler / Grid Engine is marked with CC0 1.0.
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so he's functionally taking up 2 spots because the port on his GV60 is on the back right so if a Tesla comes both the charger he's using and the one to the right are unavailable.
Sort of. At an empty station no harm no foul.

And technically if everybody with a left-cord car parks right of him, and all with right-cord cars (like Teslas) park right of him AND there is a spare space to the right, no stall will be wasted. If people remember to do this - -which they won't at first -- wasting of a stall, even in full stations, will be rare.

Tesla could remind people which end to park in when they drive in or invoke the app. Of course, people will have already parked and not want to move.

The ultimate answer is for Tesla to tell them what stall to use. If Tesla does that, there won't be blockage at a correctly arranged set of stalls. But will Tesla do that? Maybe if we see a big problem. The bigger problem will be the cars who can't reach the cord and park sideways. Those cars should be blocked from charging when the station is going to fill up. Told to go to another station and this one won't work for them.
 
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Sort of. At an empty station no harm no foul.

And technically if everybody with a left-cord car parks right of him, and all with right-cord cars (like Teslas) park right of him AND there is a spare space to the right, no stall will be wasted. If people remember to do this - -which they won't at first -- wasting of a stall, even in full stations, will be rare.

Tesla could remind people which end to park in when they drive in or invoke the app. Of course, people will have already parked and not want to move.

The ultimate answer is for Tesla to tell them what stall to use. If Tesla does that, there won't be blockage at a correctly arranged set of stalls. But will Tesla do that? Maybe if we see a big problem. The bigger problem will be the cars who can't reach the cord and park sideways. Those cars should be blocked from charging when the station is going to fill up. Told to go to another station and this one won't work for them.
Until one person parks wrong or someone finishes early and the only open place is on the ‘wrong‘ side for the next person, so yes he is taking up 2 spaces.

Like I said before - it’s really the same issue as we have with gas pumps except it only takes 5-10 min to fill up your car vs. 20-30+ to charge. And automakers put their charge ports in 5 different spots as opposed to 2 different spots.
 
Until one person parks wrong or someone finishes early and the only open place is on the ‘wrong‘ side for the next person, so yes he is taking up 2 spaces.

Like I said before - it’s really the same issue as we have with gas pumps except it only takes 5-10 min to fill up your car vs. 20-30+ to charge. And automakers put their charge ports in 5 different spots as opposed to 2 different spots.
Sure, it's possible to screw it up and waste a stall -- if Tesla makes no effort to prevent that.
But will it be frequent? It's only a problem if a station fills.

Note as well that when someobody uses the left cord, a right cord (Tesla) vehicle can't part on their left, but another left cord vehicle can, so that space is still available..

Anyway if it becomes a problem, Tesla just has to put in a system to push people to the right stalls, by having them get assigned their stall before they park, and only being able to charge at the right stall if the station is filling up. If it's not full, again, no harm, no foul. Some stations are pretty much never full, and I suspect Tesla plans to mostly allow CCS at those.
 
Anyway if it becomes a problem, Tesla just has to put in a system to push people to the right stalls, by having them get assigned their stall before they park, and only being able to charge at the right stall if the station is filling up. If it's not full, again, no harm, no foul. Some stations are pretty much never full, and I suspect Tesla plans to mostly allow CCS at those.
Tesla has more than a year, since November of 2021, of experience with this in Europe, and they haven't implemented any stall guidance yet, so I assume it hasn't been a problem. (And EV adoption is higher there than it is here.)
 
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I manage an organization of professional drivers and have to live and breathe this stuff. I would be confident in predicting that someone would be hard pressed to find even one study or qualified professional opinion that advocates for widespread and general use of pull-in parking.
In general, I prefer to pull through if possible -- forward in, forward out.

With respect to pull in versus back in, I prefer to back in for most public parking lots because backing out of a parking space in a public parking lot has numerous hazards, but pull in for angled parking spaces that intend to be used only for pull in and for my own garage where the garage space is narrow, but the driveway is empty and the street has little traffic and no view obstructions.
 
In general, I prefer to pull through if possible -- forward in, forward out.

With respect to pull in versus back in, I prefer to back in for most public parking lots because backing out of a parking space in a public parking lot has numerous hazards, but pull in for angled parking spaces that intend to be used only for pull in and for my own garage where the garage space is narrow, but the driveway is empty and the street has little traffic and no view obstructions.
Hey, who doesn't prefer pull through? It's a matter of cost and real estate.

SCs started at the ass-end of parking lots that Tesla talked into allowing chargers. They keep costs low. These days they seem to be doing it bigger and perhaps spending more, so you will see more pull throughs or stalls in between the spaces. But I suspect you will see a lot of stalls you back into, at the edge of the lot, as you have seen for a while. Dedicated stations where Tesla controls the land may be different.

Oh, and Tesla just announced V4 chargers do have longer cables, they know the V3 are not long enough.
 
In particular, none of the supposedly "leaked" diagrams of Tesla's "magic dock" -- sometimes depicted as a NACS to CCS adapter built into the stall which can be unlocked and used by CCS cars, and sometimes shown as a dual-cord stall -- show an ordinary length charging cord. A

Mentioned at Investor Day, the new charger will have a "longer" cord. Not sure if anyone has measured the length on the new chargers.
 
Tesla has more than a year, since November of 2021, of experience with this in Europe, and they haven't implemented any stall guidance yet, so I assume it hasn't been a problem. (And EV adoption is higher there than it is here.)
In Europe, there are a ton of other CCS charging stations within a short distance, so CCS cars at Superchargers is not that common. In the US, every CCS charging provider sucks, so superchargers with Magic Docks are going to be flooded with CCS cars.
 
I wonder if it might be more useful to start mounting the pedestals mid-car between each stall. So cars could either back-in or head-in park and cars with either side-front or side-rear could charge and there would be no wasted stalls. The few cars out there (like the Kona) with front-bumper charting ports would then be out of luck though.
 
I wonder if it might be more useful to start mounting the pedestals mid-car between each stall. So cars could either back-in or head-in park and cars with either side-front or side-rear could charge and there would be no wasted stalls. The few cars out there (like the Kona) with front-bumper charting ports would then be out of luck though.
We have a site that is a head in first site near me. The pedestals are in the back, at the right place.

I don't like it. it's hard to pull into and so easy to hit the pedestal.
Mid way would be better, but still tight. Of course they could make the spots wider, but that's a lot of money.

Let's not forget that the Leaf is in the front and many of the other vehicles, especially PHEVs don't use the back.
 
We have a site that is a head in first site near me. The pedestals are in the back, at the right place.

I don't like it. it's hard to pull into and so easy to hit the pedestal.
Mid way would be better, but still tight. Of course they could make the spots wider, but that's a lot of money.

Let's not forget that the Leaf is in the front and many of the other vehicles, especially PHEVs don't use the back.
For a Leaf to charge at one of these stations would be impressive! :cool:
 
The only way to do it is to kill another car, you can buy the CCS port on sites like Alibaba but the control board is proprietary to Qualcomm so you buy thousands or none. Taking a wrecked car and using it to connect a Leaf to CCS is practical, but you can't start a business doing that unless you know a way to cause a bunch of EVs to wreck. So CCS is a one-off for everyone but OEMs.

Of course it's even HARDER to put a Tesla plug on a Leaf, so I guess it's not SO bad that Qualcomm has the IP all locked up.

Just really wanna convert my wife's iMiev to CCS