17.26.76

[chillaban]

I just finished the return leg of my trip with this firmware. Nothing new to add to my previous notes. I really do think this is the first firmware release where we can seriously discuss AP1 vs AP2 capability where each wins some situations. Definitely a step in the right direction though there is still a lot of work left to do.

I did notice though that my first 50 or so miles were noticeably less smooth compared to the rest of the trip. Seems like there may be a calibration period.

 

[alcibiades]

With 17.26.76 in a wide rollout, we can ask the question which is better now: AP1 or AP2?

Before now (I was on 17.17.17) I suggest it was no contest, AP1 was still superior. But with 17.26.76 I think the answer depends on what is important to you. For me, I lean to AP2 being superior. That’s because for me, where I use TACC and EAP is on divided highways, I’m not concerned with using those features in city driving, and only in a small way with driving on non-divided highways.

On divided highways:

(1) AP2 stays more consistently in the centre of the lane.

(2) Slowing down in AP2 is smoother, and starts earlier.

(3) Cars cutting in are handled better and without fuss in AP2.

(4) I agree with others that automatic lane changes in AP2 are too abrupt—but I think they are safer in that the car moves right to the centre of the lane. In AP1 often the car seemed to move to the outside of the incoming lane before moving back into the centre, which is nervous-making if there’s a car or truck beyond. So I’ll take the aggressive lane change (hopefully that is softened soon) in return for a safer change.

(5) I agree that there is still a tiny jerkiness on curves, and even very slightly on straightaways, but it’s negligible, and a trade-off for keeping the car more closely centred, which for me is appreciated.

Now some silly things

(6) Here in Canada, it still doesn’t properly display the speed limit—what it displays is 1.6 times higher than the actual limit. The car knows what the real speed limit is (ie it sets the TACC speed correctly) but still displays the wrong speed. It’s a kilometers to miles conversion problem, which I’m surprised they haven’t already corrected.

(7) I don’t know if this is an AP2 thing, or a move away from Garmin to TomTom thing, but I’ve encountered a number of well-marked but non-divided roads where the car does not know what the speed limit is, and just assumes (usually incorrectly) that the speed limit is 60km/hr. Maybe this is worse in Canada because the TomTom mapping here isn’t as precise?

(8) And yes, I still don’t know why they don’t have rain-sensing wipers in AP2, but to me it’s not a big deal.

How long did you own your AP1 car?

My recollection of my AP1 test drive is that it was still way better on the highway. I didn't use it on local roads.

 

[stephenstohn]

How long did you own your AP1 car?

My recollection of my AP1 test drive is that it was still way better on the highway. I didn't use it on local roads.

I owned my AP1 for about nine months...

 

[u00mem9]

I'll still take that refund on FSD which no can can claim is ever happening on this hardware.

You paid for FSD?! No wonder you are pissed! Yeah, I agree with most of your posts, and while these are 1st world problems, and we should all keep perspective, one would have to be a fool to still think Tesla has been honest through this AP2 bait/switch. My advice would be to get a friend that happens to be an attorney to fire off a few letters. This is a slam dunk case and you should be able to kick the bag for that FSD money pretty easily...but it ain't going to happen because you asked nicely

Just a reminder...AP1 (the system that remains superior) wasn't $8,000 or $5,000...it was $2,500. Enjoy being on Tesla's development team, and call me when it's finished. I want one of those new high-power inverters!

 

[Electroman]

I have not driven AP2 but been driving AP1 for 18 months and 30k miles.

AP1 is so damn good on the highways, there is really nothing more I can think that is needed to improve it, except perhaps reduce the frequency of nag.

So AP2 can strive to reach AP1 parity, but there is nothing more to surpass - IMHO

 

[brkaus]

Any tricks to make the perpendicular parking work?

 

[jddssc121]

AP2 still want to rear end white vehicles

 

[MarcusMaximus]

I did a long trip today and noticed something interesting w/ speed limit signs: It doesn't read the speed off them but it does seem to recognize and respond to them.

Previously when I'd go through a speed limit change, the car wouldn't actually change the speed limit on the display for ~15-20 seconds, presumably after some database/GPS checkin. Today, every single time, the display changed the instant I passed the sign, just as it passed the windshield. I strongly suspect it's identifying the sign as a speed limit sign and checking in the database to see what the speed should be proactively.

 

[bigdaddie]

I did a long trip today and noticed something interesting w/ speed limit signs: It doesn't read the speed off them but it does seem to recognize and respond to them.

Previously when I'd go through a speed limit change, the car wouldn't actually change the speed limit on the display for ~15-20 seconds, presumably after some database/GPS checkin. Today, every single time, the display changed the instant I passed the sign, just as it passed the windshield. I strongly suspect it's identifying the sign as a speed limit sign and checking in the database to see what the speed should be proactively.

I had the same observation. It changes the speed on the display almost exactly abeam the sign in my experience.

 

[thehumanwire]

Any tricks to make the perpendicular parking work?

You gotta find a space that's wide enough. I tried driving past many lines of cars with plenty of spaces open only to find it work once I found a space that was wider than the others.

 

[brkaus]

I had the same observation. It changes the speed on the display almost exactly abeam the sign in my experience.

Same for me. Started today.

 

[smartypnz]

@Tangible

Just curious (not meant to be mean).... How are these SV companies (w/major manufacturers) doing in their endeavors? This being the first I heard of it.

 

[earthling]

ID 10 T errors. Ha! Classic!!!

 

[Tangible]

How are these SV companies (w/major manufacturers) doing in their endeavors? This being the first I heard of it.

I recommend this Forbes article re Google's Waymo partnering initiatives.

To Accelerate Waymo To Mass Market, CEO Krafcik Eyes Manufacturing Partner

Apple has decided not to make its own self-driver, but to instead do the software only, leaving the actual car-making to those who've been doing it for a century. They're using Hertz to supply the vehicles during testing:

Apple and Hertz Partner for Self-Driving Car Testing



I don't know if this idea of separating the hardware and software suppliers will be the best, but it does have the advantage of each company doing what it does best.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

By the way, I think the bullying of @oktane on this thread is really reprehensible. Those of us who bought EAP Teslas in 4Q 2016 were lied to and cheated, and the problem won't be dismissed by nonsensical tweets about "silky smoothness" from Mr. Musk or ad hominem attacks here.

I mostly agree with the first part of your statement in that bullying is unacceptable. Whether oktane has really been "bullied" in this thread is debatable, however.

But the 2nd portion of your statement above comes across as entitled. You Q4 2016 purchasers seem to believe you're the only ones who didn't get what you were promised from Tesla. That's nonsense. There were thousands of cars sold from Q4 2014 to Q3 2015 with AP1 hardware and no autosteer. October 2014 P85D purchasers waited a year for any autosteer functionality whatsoever, and what arrived in October of 2015 wasn't all that great. Only in the last 6 months has AP1 become the gold standard reference to which everything else is compared (for me, I pinpoint this moment as firmware 2.52.22 in January of 2017).

So, for an October 2014 P85D purchaser, they waited a year for any autosteer functionality, and another 15 months for something fairly solid and trustworthy. That's 27 months of AP1 software development, and half of the problem had already been implemented in hardware by Mobileye. Meanwhile, you Q4 2016 purchasers have waited 9 months and have 90% of that same functionality.

What that adds up to is that there are people who waited three times longer than you have for their paid-for feature, yet you guys are on this forum complaining way louder than they ever did. That comes across as entitled.

I knew what I was getting into when I decided to purchase my 85D, which was delivered April 2015. I waited 6 months for autosteer, and another 15 for 2.52.22. And I've seen the advances that Tesla has made during that time, including the refresh body style, AP2 hardware and software, glass roof, more powerful CPUs, bigger batteries, etc. I knew going in that my car would have bugs, missing functionality, and be surpassed in technology and capability almost immediately. My choice under those conditions was reduce all of that risk by leasing the car, and that choice is going to pay off for me. In April of 2018 I will get a new one, with all the latest stuff (whatever it may be at that point).

What surprises me is that some of you Q4 2016 purchasers who are so vocal on this forum expected something different. When I researched my purchase, it was clear to me that all of those above-mentioned items were risks that come with a revolutionary new car design, and a brand new car company that hasn't found their footing yet. Was this not clear to you? Something is different about you guys that I'm having trouble figuring out, because other Tesla buyers have had it worse, yet they aren't as vocal as you and they still love their car.

 

[oktane]

You paid for FSD?! No wonder you are pissed! Yeah, I agree with most of your posts, and while these are 1st world problems, and we should all keep perspective, one would have to be a fool to still think Tesla has been honest through this AP2 bait/switch. My advice would be to get a friend that happens to be an attorney to fire off a few letters. This is a slam dunk case and you should be able to kick the bag for that FSD money pretty easily...but it ain't going to happen because you asked nicely

Just a reminder...AP1 (the system that remains superior) wasn't $8,000 or $5,000...it was $2,500. Enjoy being on Tesla's development team, and call me when it's finished. I want one of those new high-power inverters!

Yes, I got suckered into it! I should have skipped FSD and Ludicrous for sure - both of these are scam features, especially with the latest firmware power reductions for the performance cars. That would have been enough money for a free Powerwall 2 install or 1/3 of a Model 3.

 

[mrkisskiss]

Did roughly 500 miles over the last couple of days with AP2, 17.26.76

My observations are mostly the same as other posters...

• Highway auto steer is very good; set and forget at this point and probably the same as AP1
• There’s still some occasional jitter sometimes in the longitudinal control when going 85/90mph - it’ll sometimes slow ever so slightly, seemingly for nothing at all. It causes the passengers to look at me and go “is she ok?”... it’s only a 1 or 2 mph slow down, or hesitation every so often, but it is noticeable
• Lane changing is too abrupt, a bit startling. It also doesn’t really come out of the change very nicely - it could be better. Also, I’ve noticed that if there’s a follow car that changes out of your lane in front (i.e you’ll be able to pass), the car will actually slow down a bit whilst that car in front changes lanes. I suppose this might be intentional, but it’s a slightly odd feeling.
• I wouldn’t describe the longitudinal control behaviour in traffic jams as silky smooth - it can be a bit heavy on the acceleration and braking; not as smooth as I’d drive it, and could make some passengers a bit nauseous. But, it’s not terrible - perfectly acceptable.
• Lane holding is great now - doesn’t seem to bias as much to the side. It could still be smarter here, but it’s holding the center line really nicely the vast majority of the time
• Steering round curves is great - vastly improved
• Ghost braking under bridges seems gone; no sudden brake events at all on this trip - thank goodness.
• Longitudinal control at highway speeds is pretty smooth overall, bar the occasional jitter here and there.

Overall, very happy. It’s not quite as smooth and solid as AP1 still, but it’s got to be really, really close at this point. I’m excited for the additional improvements from now on - I’m sure there’ll be more tweak updates, but the next major update could mark the diversion point of AP vs EAP feature sets, perhaps true automatic lane changing (rather than turn signal activated)? I also expect quite major auto-steer improvements when they activate the front facing wide angle camera, though I expect we won’t see that until August, given that they only recently started gathering imagery/video from us, and will want to gather lots of data in all conditions (I’m not sure many Tesla’s will have seen lots of snow yet) to train the vision models - a process that can take a couple of weeks of number crunching anyway, depending on the dataset size.

 

[MikeBur]

I mostly agree with the first part of your statement in that bullying is unacceptable. Whether oktane has really been "bullied" in this thread is debatable, however.

But the 2nd portion of your statement above comes across as entitled. You Q4 2016 purchasers seem to believe you're the only ones who didn't get what you were promised from Tesla. That's nonsense. There were thousands of cars sold from Q4 2014 to Q3 2015 with AP1 hardware and no autosteer. October 2014 P85D purchasers waited a year for any autosteer functionality whatsoever, and what arrived in October of 2015 wasn't all that great. Only in the last 6 months has AP1 become the gold standard reference to which everything else is compared (for me, I pinpoint this moment as firmware 2.52.22 in January of 2017).

So, for an October 2014 P85D purchaser, they waited a year for any autosteer functionality, and another 15 months for something fairly solid and trustworthy. That's 27 months of AP1 software development, and half of the problem had already been implemented in hardware by Mobileye. Meanwhile, you Q4 2016 purchasers have waited 9 months and have 90% of that same functionality.

What that adds up to is that there are people who waited three times longer than you have for their paid-for feature, yet you guys are on this forum complaining way louder than they ever did. That comes across as entitled.

I knew what I was getting into when I decided to purchase my 85D, which was delivered April 2015. I waited 6 months for autosteer, and another 15 for 2.52.22. And I've seen the advances that Tesla has made during that time, including the refresh body style, AP2 hardware and software, glass roof, more powerful CPUs, bigger batteries, etc. I knew going in that my car would have bugs, missing functionality, and be surpassed in technology and capability almost immediately. My choice under those conditions was reduce all of that risk by leasing the car, and that choice is going to pay off for me. In April of 2018 I will get a new one, with all the latest stuff (whatever it may be at that point).

What surprises me is that some of you Q4 2016 purchasers who are so vocal on this forum expected something different. When I researched my purchase, it was clear to me that all of those above-mentioned items were risks that come with a revolutionary new car design, and a brand new car company that hasn't found their footing yet. Was this not clear to you? Something is different about you guys that I'm having trouble figuring out, because other Tesla buyers have had it worse, yet they aren't as vocal as you and they still love their car.

As one of those p85d peeps, I believe @oktane is perfecty fine talking through their disappointment, and even though they have a propensity for continuing to state this a tad too often for some, the lessons I can relate to as the reality of sadness when the Tesla tarnish occurs.
Things I generally recommend now to mitigate this are:
a) don't believe the accuracy of anything Tesla says ahead of it being independently verified (e.g. AP1, HP claims, battery capacity, etc). I don't believe they are purposely lying all the time, rather appear to be very creative with the realization of Elon's unencumbered enthusiasm as reality hits.
b) never evangelise, or perpetuate the evangelism from others, to anyone else for anything you haven't seen. This way lies the erosion of friendship and credibiiity
c) concentrate on getting your money back for functionality not available on the due sheet/Monteray sticker of the car - from @oktane 's previous posts they appear have more than enough to spend $100 or so and talk to an attorney on options assuming your have exhausted all options with Tesla. Either way, it's not worth stressing about any more. I sometimes wish I'd gone after Tesla for the missing HP, though it's plenty quick already.
d) Most importantly: remember you have a great car in its own right.

Tesla's mission is important and the early adopters helped move that forward. Sometimes it is hard for those who have been significantly invested to think of Tesla critically. Doubly so when combined with hindsight-biased historical recollection. Elon himself has stated that constructive criticism is key to making better products. This will be needed as the masses buy Model 3s.

Net: We can't presume poor intent when others don't see the world from your own perspective. I just wish I had the ability to think this objectively more often, rather than with emotional response

My 2c

 

[OBX John]

Anyone else have AP turn off yesterday? For some reason both our cars lost AP and TAC halfway through running errands yesterday. Both are on 17.26.76.

 

[BlindBanana]

Another improvement with 17.26.76 seems to be that the map no longer shows gray squares.

On the flip side, traffic does not appear to be displayed consistently anymore. On my drives yesterday and today traffic wasn't displayed at all, as if I had turned it off (I didn't). I assume it's a glitch but I would be curious if anyone else has noticed?