Buying Model X, Need some Advice please.

[Ragnarr]

Hello All,

I'm planning on buying a Tesla Model X to replace our Audi Q5 family car in 2018 Q1. I have some concerns and questions, and I hope some of you can help me with making a decision.

My wife owns a VW eGolf, and I absolutely love this car along with my Q5. The plan is to replace both vehicles with a Model X.

We live in Norway (Southern part), and we don't have a crazy cold climate. It can go probably -8' in winter and generally between 10-14'C during other seasons. (20'c in summer if we're lucky)

1. 75D or 100D? The price difference is about 200,000Kr which is a lot of money (The eGolf was 250,000Kr) is it worth going for the 100Kwh battery pack? Unlike the most Norwegians, we do not drive a lot to the mountains or cabins. However once a year or so we like to take a road trip to Denmark or Oslo, Kristiansand. Etc. I have range anxiety, and I don't even turn on the window heating in the eGolf cause I keep looking at the range. (It has 24Kwh pack, so range is about 100Kms in real world) We have two small kids, and we will start driving a lot in the next few years. Tesla has a decent supercharging network here, but I'm more worried about not being able to turn on heating/AC etc. due to saving "Battery" with a 75Kwh pack. I can afford the 100D but is it worth it for the price? (My nearest supercharger is 165kms away and a new one coming on the end of 2018 in about 25km distance)

2. I have been reading a lot of threads here about fast battery degradation issues with the 90D version of the car. Is this something happened in the past or something I should be worried about? What's the degradation % in 2 and five years?

3. I also read a lot of Model S has a better range compared to X cause of the weight. Is it true? Can anyone give me a rough idea? I want to get the X cause it will be a better car for a family (Easy to get kids into the child seats and plenty of space) compared to S but if S can provide a better range and build quality, I would go for it.

4. I have seen a Youtube video where someone showed some problems with the Model X where the panels don't align properly or the doors don't fit. etc. Are these are all fixed now or just isolated incidents? Or is it a fleet-wide problem?

5. At my apartment, I have a 10 ampere dedicated fuse. I use this to charge the eGolf, and it's not that fast. To charge 100Kms, I need about 5hrs. The problem is I'm not allowed to have more than 10Amp legally due to safety here in Norway in an apartment. I want to have a faster charger, so the car is always filled and ready to go. Is it possible to install the faster charger unit? I guess with 10Amp draw it's not possible? So If I get the X, I'm looking at charging overnight to get a full battery?

6. The last question, I know buying a Tesla is like buying an iPhone cause every year there is always something new. Is there anything nice coming next year which is worth waiting for? I know about the AP 2.5 Hardware and New radar which is already shipping in the newer models. How about the new battery tech and the Interior camera in the Model 3? Should I wait a little longer or should I pull the plug? I love the look of the new roadster, and it looks much more beautiful, but X is not the most good looking car around so I wonder if they will do some sort of Face lift or redesign the interior anytime soon?

Thanks.

Sorry for the long set of questions. Hope someone can help me. Thanks.

 

[Tiger]

Heating does not really affect range, the power consumption of heating is probably 1kWh per HOUR so if you heat up one hour you will lose 1kWh of range (percentage depends on your total battery kapacity). See:

• Putting some numbers on the factors that affect range
• How many watts does A/C use? here's your answer

 

[eternal]

its not necessarily the heating that is the issue. its all the other factors in the extreme cold such as increased wind drag, tires with increased drag coefficient, battery inefficiency until it is properly warmed up and yes heating the cabin will use up more heat. If you have an X, you will be using the rear heat also so honestly, you are better off with the 100D. My recent experience has been my 295mi range car, operates more like a 190mi range car. I am easily using 125wh/mile more than normal (sometimes as high as 150-170wh/mi). Plus with battery degradation over time, you will be glad you have a 100D

 

[Magus]

I had a Model S 70D and now a Model X 100D. I highly recommend you go for the 100D unless it is too expensive. Range anxiety is GONE. The 70D always had the available range, never an issue. But with the 100D comes strong confidence. Plus you can run camper mode and keep your car warm and not worry about range.

As far as fit and finish it is improving over time but a small trade off to make with an X. Again they are working on it and it certainly improved over time. It does not deter me and the interior fit and finish is good. Overall I believe the Model X to be superior to all of its competitors- with fit being one point its competitors are better at this time in Tesla’s development. I actually prefer the Z’s interior to every car out there. The pano is luxe. Sure the competitors use more expensive materials and more spread out, but the X looks and feels better. It is a minimalist design. I think it would look weird if they started to mix in more higher end materials.

 

[HugoBoss]

My thought on Wich battery really depends on if your budget allows it. We went with 100D. 75D is enough for us. We keep cars long term so unless the X is a total lemon I will keep it till it dies. Reason I went with 100D over 75D is because of future battery degration. My thought is even if it loses charging capacity it will still be enough to keep going, cause I only really need 75.

As far as charging, your condo limitation might make it a hassle.

 

[rush6410]

I tend to over analyze things such as purchases. Here are my experiences with the same questions before I purchased:

1. 75D or 100D? The price difference is about 200,000Kr which is a lot of money (The eGolf was 250,000Kr) is it worth going for the 100Kwh battery pack?

The approach I took was analyzing distance of normal trips my wife and I take during the year. We visit family many times a year at a distance of max 170 miles. I did not want to supercharge for these trips. I also considered that I do want to travel more than the optimal speed by at least 5 mph over the limit which reduces range as well. Since charging to 100% is detrimental to long term degradation, I also use a 90% charge as my normal level for trips. Obviously, I could charge to 100% when needed but wanted to keep to a bare minimum and not make it normal. Because of my preferences, the 90D was the right choice and well worth the extra cost. If a lower battery option fits within your parameters as I stated above, I would certainly strongly consider the lower capacity.

2. I have been reading a lot of threads here about fast battery degradation issues with the 90D version of the car. Is this something happened in the past or something I should be worried about? What's the degradation % in 2 and five years?

I have 15,000 miles just over a year of ownership. I have 0 degradation. If anything, I do average just above rated range at 90% and 100% charge. Superchargers do have a negative impact to degradation. Every time I supersharger on a long trip, my rated range reduces at 90% charge for a month or so before it will return to normal with wall charging exclusively. If you supercharge, I wouldn't go above 80% charge to reduce the effects.

4. I have seen a Youtube video where someone showed some problems with the Model X where the panels don't align properly or the doors don't fit. etc. Are these are all fixed now or just isolated incidents? Or is it a fleet-wide problem?

I had a December 2016 delivery with AP2.0. My fit and finish was very good if not exceptional. I know others have had bad experiences so I can only speak for myself. I did take a tour of the factory and was impressed with the manufacturing process and quality checks built into the process. Does that mean exceptions of poor quality slip through the cracks, I am sure it does. Robots build the entire car fabrication up and through painting before a human touches it with tolerance and quality checks through the robot building process. Each vehicle sits on a cart individually. If a tolerance issue arises, the entire car gets pulled off the line for corrections without stopping production. Robots increase consistency with corrections over time. So, tolerances and alignment issues should happen less frequently. As far as the human end of the line where the entire interior is assembled, they use well known quality practices through out the industry. In fact, they stole, use a practice from Toyota in regards to human interventions, line stoppage, and communications to make it easy to pull a car from the line when quality issues are discovered.

5. At my apartment, I have a 10 ampere dedicated fuse. I use this to charge the eGolf, and it's not that fast. To charge 100Kms, I need about 5hrs. The problem is I'm not allowed to have more than 10Amp legally due to safety here in Norway in an apartment. I want to have a faster charger, so the car is always filled and ready to go. Is it possible to install the faster charger unit? I guess with 10Amp draw it's not possible? So If I get the X, I'm looking at charging overnight to get a full battery?

This one may be a tough one for you. I installed my wall charger on a 50 amp circuit with a normal rate of 40 amps. I get about 27 miles per hour at that rate; 30 amps = 20 miles/hr, 20 amps around 12 miles/hr. At 10 amps, I would assume around 7 miles/hr. So, you can calculate time to charge with these estimates.

6. The last question, I know buying a Tesla is like buying an iPhone cause every year there is always something new. Is there anything nice coming next year which is worth waiting for?

I wouldn't worry about this too much. As long as you have the latest AP hardware for future autonomous capabilities, you will be good. Tesla doesn't communicate future tech or launches until it is executing on the line. For example, when I placed my order, AP 1.0 was available with no word on 2.0 availability. One week before my x was doe to go to production, Tesla announced AP 2.0 execution with line stoppage to upgrade immediately. With that being said, I received a first run AP 2.0 vehicle. I believe I was one of the first to receive delivery. Lesson here is waiting on launches and announces would be a never ending consideration. New tech could be launched tomorrow or 2 years from now and we wouldn't know. They keep that pretty close to the cuff. I wouldn't wait.

 

[FlyingT]

Very interesting questions for me since I am also planning to order a Tesla Model X in the very near future.
Currently I drive a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV which will be trade in for a Tesla Model X.

I want to react on queastion no: 5 about the 10 Amp. Fuse and loading speed.
In Europe we have 230 Volt, roughly double amount USA. So the loading speed also. On one phase (230 V) 1 Amps equals 1 km. So 10 Amps means about 10 km/h charging speed (230 * 10 = 2,3 kWh and about 4,5 km per kWh). On three phase (400 V) about 3 kilometers per amp.

 

[rush6410]

I want to react on queastion no: 5 about the 10 Amp. Fuse and loading speed.
In Europe we have 230 Volt, roughly double amount USA.

In the US, wall charging and destination charging is also 240 Volts. We have an option for 120 Volt connects but it is too slow to even consider.

 

[Uncle Paul]

I believe that one of the reasons the Tesla is so popular in Norway if the generous tax treatment, making the costs more than competitive.

The trade off between the cheaper battery and the more expensive bigger one can only be determined by your own situation.
You can go cheaper, and get less range and more anxiety, or spend more and get more range and less anxiety, especially in challenging conditions.

The cold of Norwayand the total after tax costs, tends to skew the decisions to the bigger batteries.

If you can fill your battery every night to around 80% every night and 100% for occasional long trips you are golden there. More and more SuperChargers and destinations seem to be coming rapidly, so your future options will only be getting better.

Most 75 owners figure out ways to make their long distance travel work out. A 100 will just give you more options.

 

[Tam]

1. 75D or 100D?

I chose highest battery capacity because it's no where comparable to an ICE range, and also for the convenience of skipping choosing superchargers on the roads.

You should choose the highest battery capacity because you said:

1) range anxiety
2) you live in colder climate than I do (My Tesla has never experienced snow, ice...)
3) You have slower 10A allowable home circuit

2. ...battery degradation issues...

From time to time, studies have shown there's no worries.

I wouldn't worry about it since Tesla gives you infinite miles/8 year battery warranty.

3. I also read a lot of Model S has a better range compared to X cause of the weight. Is it true?

I don't see why not. It does not defies logic. Government Certifications indicate S has more range than X.

4. ...panels don't align properly or the doors don't fit. etc....

There have been many reports of good fit and finish but there are still some with not so good.

I don't think the Tesla Quality Assurance is "fixed" as a culture/policy/rule.

Henry Ford QA was to produce as many cars from an assembly line as possible then fix them later before delivery.

The Japanese learned American way but they modified it by focusing on Quality first, not Quantity first and shared its way called Kaizen in Fremont NUMMI plant.

GM learned Kaizen from Fremont NUMMI plant and wanted to implement that in all of its plants but plant managers never implemented it for fear of decrease quantity and thus their own plant managers' monetary incentives.

Now NUMMI plant is Tesla but it's doubtful that Kaizen is practiced there.

Tesla seems to be willing to show customers imperfect cars and it is up to customers to point out any imperfections at a delivery.

I wouldn't worry about it as long as you bring with you your own car inspectors from your family and friends at a delivery.

Tesla has been very good fixing QA problems after deliveries.

5...10 ampere...

Sounds too slow to me. It might take days to fill up from empty.

6. ...wait a little longer or should I pull the plug?

If you have a luxury of time then sure you can wait because there's a new technology eventually.

 

[sub]

We just picked up our 75d a week ago today. Build quality is near perfect, I've never paid attention to "gaps" before but have do on the X due to all the talk, no issues with our vehicle. We had a 4-5 tiny bubbles in clear coat that will be fixed by Tesla and a tight charge port that may need to be replaced or may loosen with use, already seems to be doing so. Understand that there are some serious OCD people posting about this stuff, I'm sure a good percentage of it is just nonsense.

I couldn't justify a 100D for the one trip a year or more where it might allow me to skip a supercharger or the 15 minutes at a super charger 1-2x a month when we take ~200 mile round trips to SF or Sacramento.

Aesthetically I think the X is the "ugliest" Tesla but I don't think it's an ugly car, let's call it unique.

Being in California, the land of warmer temps and superchargers a plenty makes the 75D a good option.

 

[Super_Popular]

Get the 100D if you can afford it and don't worry about build quality.

 

[mattack4000]

Not that I want to spend 16K for the extra 25kwh, but with the cold, the 75D is looking more like a 150 miles car if you have a heavy foot in the winter...

 

[HabitualUser]

I love the look of the new roadster, and it looks much more beautiful, but X is not the most good looking car around so I wonder if they will do some sort of Face lift or redesign the interior anytime soon?

The X is the most good looking car around. How dare you, sir?

 

[Tiger]

More range was actually promised:

• Elon Musk Says 600-Mile Range Tesla Will Come In 2017
  
• Tesla CEO Believes 600-Mile Range Obtainable by 2017
• Tesla promises 1000 km range for e-cars soon

 

[HenryCH]

My Model X order was confirmed mid Dec and I had similar questions/decisions to make. Similar to you, we don't often go on long trips so on paper the 75 would have been enough but I decided to go for for the 100, 7 seat configuration, beige seats, with the PUP. We have two small children and we have frequent visitors grandparents, friends etc. We live in Zurich.

1. 75 or 100D range and price difference - since the X100D is my first electric car and I don't want the experience to be ruined by having to worry about range when we do go on longer trips. In winter we go to the mountains to ski and I want to be able to get there and back comfortably (120/180 miles - 200/300 km). I understand wind, a cold battery and tire friction are the main factors affecting range (and weight but somewhat offset due to regenerative braking), in winter I will for sure face all three and in Norway I suspect you will too. For me the price difference is worth it and with EAP I am also planning on taking less flights and instead I will drive (trips of c. 500 to 1k miles) so overtime I will offset some of additional cost. Further if all goes well I will keep the car for 10 years, possibly until it dies, so makes sense to go for the 100. You can look at your potential longer trips on the EV trip planner, there isn't a model X option but you can use the EV Model: S90D or the S75D, add Payload: 1000lbs and play around with the other settings according to your driving style and buffer comfort zone, it will give you a good indication for comparison.
EV Trip Planner

2. Battery degradation - I've not read anything concrete on that but there seems to be some degradation with extensive SC use and topping up to 100%, the less the better. See link below, the report suggests a Tesla lost 6% at 200kms, that's close to 10 years use for a regular family, but the article doesn't specify % of SC though. I am personally not worried about this at all, also since we have 8 years warranty on the battery pack you are covered for any serious battery issues.
https://www.google.at/amp/s/jalopni...-you-put-300-000-miles-on-a-te-1798662230/amp

3. S vs X range and built quality - there is a difference in range mainly due to weight and body shape (drag coefficient Cd) - the range difference is around 30 miles across same battery size, nothing significant IMO. Build quality should be the same for both, same factory, same Quality Control etc, again haven't seen anything to suggest either the S or X are a superior car in terms of quality. I chose the X because I wanted a spacious 7 seater (kids, visitors, ski equipment etc), similar reasons as you and so the S was never an option for me. If you only need/want 5 seats you could consider the S but will not be as spacious - another consideration might be if you need a roof rack, this is quite difficult on the X but the hitch (standard equipment) can carry bikes/skis or you can even attach a hitch box for extra storage, kind of like a roof box.

4. Quality issues - it seems that a few cars have had some issues but these are normally corrected. Then a lot of people are reporting no issues at all, I guess this is similar to any other product/production car, some issues may slip through Quality Control but overall I personally believe Tesla is producing quality cars. If I get any issues with my Model X I will get the service centre to sort them out, I am confident they will resolve them.

5. Charge time at 10amps - I'm definitely not at expert on this but from the reading I've done I'd say that you wont be able to install a faster charger. To fully charge the X 100 with 10amps (less than 120v) you might need more than an overnight charge - I've found this nice guide on charge times across the three 'Charging Levels' 1,2 and 3, it will help you understand the charge time you might expect on the Model X100D. I live in a flat with underground parking, I don't have any type of charger installed at the moment (I'm planning on requesting the landlord to let me install a charger but not sure whether that will be possible yet), my current plan is to charge it at food stores and shopping centres, they typically have a Level 2 charger and depending on the kW on offer I may be able to charge around 25% on each visit, this will be enough for my daily needs, I typically shop once a week for food and once a month other stuff. For longer weekend trips I will pass by a SC.
The complete guide to Tesla charging at home, on the go and autonomously

6. New tech, to wait or not to wait - Someone answered above, Elon will not disclose when he plans to introduce new tech/improvements to the production line - like the iphone you'd expect some improvements every year or two but for Tesla exactly when, who knows! I considered this too, however in my case I just need a car replacement now and the current X is already very high tech so I will be happy with what I get. I would not compare the X with the roadster, two completely different cars, it would be like comparing the BMW X4 to the Z4. The Model X looks like it does partly due to the very low drag coefficient Cd rating, not sure if you've seen any driving around, it actually does not look like a SUV and I guess most are amazed about how it can seat 7 people comfortably.

Hopes this helps!

 

[rush6410]

Elon Musk Says 600-Mile Range Tesla Will Come In 2017

Clipped from you link; could have a 600-mile range electric vehicle by 2017. Doesn't sound like a promise.

I believe more recently he said that he was not planning on making available a larger kw battery option.

 

[Seattle Tom]

We went with the 100D and I’m so glad we did.

One, the battery is really the one thing you can’t change so buy the biggest you can afford.

Two, we have taken more road trips in the six months I’ve had the X than we did in the prior three years! It’s SO much fun to drive.

The last thing you want is to be staring at the battery meter...I’d say get the 100D for certain.

 

[tmxninja]

I can attest to the slow charge at -9C several days ago. Even though I have been driving a while, it charged 40% slower than normal until the battery was warmed up by the charger, which took about 15min.

***One OA said during service, Tesla swaps out battery cells that are less efficient. Does anyone know if this is part of warranty?****

 

[dmeyer]

75D owner here. My requirements appear more modest than yours, still I would spring for the 100D if I had to do it over again. I can do everything I've ever wanted to do in the 75D, but the 100D would make it easy and let me focus my time and energy elsewhere. It's worth it.