FIRMWARE UPDATE! AP2 Local road driving...and holy crap

[NerdUno]

@ptsagcy Owners with HW2 vehicles are a far cry from the Tesla making long trips "more relaxing." If you'd enjoy traveling 10,000 miles at 55MPH with a baby in your lap that was regularly trying to steer your car into another lane of traffic, then I guess you could call it exciting, but it's anything but relaxing.

 

[jayman]

Well... Only Tesla can answer that

However, I doubt Tesla are making their own maps. It'd be a pretty mad thing to try and do, though that's not stopped them in the past. Why would they bother though... what's the advantage? Other companies will dedicate 100% of their time to it, forever... map quality will keep them in business, so they have to be good at it. Capitalism at work - it's cheaper for Tesla (and all car manufacturers) to buy that stuff in, I'd have thought.

The most likely scenario is that they've licensed mapworks from Nvidia, as part of the DrivePX2 deal.

Mapworks is, I think, an amalgamation of multiple data sources, with an ability to combine live updates from any 'harvester' (vehicle with a camera + GPU), consolidated into one system. It's fairly obvious that there won't be any one company that's able to map the entire world in ≤10cm accuracy; it's just not feasible. As of today, I think Here are the main supplier for a lot of the HD mapping data used by Mapworks. (HD Live Map explained - HERE 360) (HERE, NVIDIA Partner on AI Technology for HD Mapping from Cloud to Car)

Where there are no HD maps to begin with, cars with cameras + GPUs can create very basic versions of these maps using ego-motion/visual odometry (basically, "motion-from-video"). They're a poor alternative (think 240p YouTube instead of 4K), but any prior knowledge is beneficial. This is partly what's meant by 'fleet learning', though not entirely. If you're the guy driving that road for the first time ever, with no prior map of any definition, then it'll probably go back to current AP1/AP2 techniques, of following lanes/path delimiters (boundaries), and the car in front, and asking you to do most of it

Since you can't upload all that camera data to the cloud, the car actually does some basic pre-processing of the vision data onboard its own GPU... crunching it when you're *not* driving (hence why your HW2 car has the potential to lose more battery than HW1 cars whilst parked). That pre-processed data is highly compressed, and only machine-readable... it gets transmitted back to the cloud servers, where further - more computationally expensive - processing is carried out and can be distributed ahead-of-time to other cars,

It's a more complex integration issue though... so, you license mapworks... then you have to build that into the car's actual driving systems, write path planning AI to figure out what to do and where to go on that road depending on the obstacles in your way (and respond to them appropriately). Then, it needs to hook into the regular, 2D SD maps that we use for general navigation ... it'll download the map tiles it needs ahead-of-time, in case you lose connectivity.

This is all... stuff... stuff that has to be done in a software update, not firmware.

Whether or not it's part of 8.1, I don't know. It'd be a ridiculous point release if that's the case.

Ok, I've bored myself now. Sorry.

Nor boring at all. Thanks for that.

 

[lunitiks]

I think the most informative use case for AP1 is when you enable in god conditions

Of course it works in God conditions - it's Intelligent Design.

Like the tape recording transcript of Elon Musks press conference in Oct. 16 states: EAP (which actually stands for Erratic Auto Pilot), will reach HW parody. I think it has.

We're only passing 1/4 of 2017 this March. FSD (Future Software Development) will ble deployed. In November, you Americans will start to notice Matrix-style hover crafts crawling along Route 66, dumping Metal Gear Solid snakes on the sidewalks, apparently in utter randomness. BUT, this is where your Demo Marketing Video Model 3 will tank up when the time is ready next month. Then you'll see a change on the Tesla Order Website, involving Dollar Numers increasing.

Prepare for the future. It's about to hit ya'll in the head

 

[ForceOne]

no.. because it is common sense. If there are no lane markings, how the hell can the car know which way to go? Not in this version of AP, may be in EAP.

Autosteer HW2 FW 17.7.2 do work without lane markings as you can see in this video

 

[croman]

Local roads and streets patrol

Autosteer HW2 FW 17.7.2 do work without lane markings as you can see in this video

Yup. Ever since the first local roads update mine has worked without lane markings on my local roads. It reads the curb and the asphalt line in the center of the road. It drives remarkably well even with oncoming traffic (It sends out the "whiskers" very far). I set speed at 20mph (though it does not read a speed limitation and will allow 35mph). The actual speed limit is 25.

I've noticed, actually, that the latest update makes it harder to get the AS grey wheel to appear in unmarked conditions now. Something about the better visual performance of EAP since the last update is preventing the system from accepting unmarked lanes as acceptable. In other words, the system is losing confidence in my local unmarked roads and isn't offering AS as readily.

 

[ptsagcy]

@ptsagcy Owners with HW2 vehicles are a far cry from the Tesla making long trips "more relaxing." If you'd enjoy traveling 10,000 miles at 55MPH with a baby in your lap that was regularly trying to steer your car into another lane of traffic, then I guess you could call it exciting, but it's anything but relaxing.

Obviously, there are some issues with AP2 that are yet to be resolved. Once they are, you will love it.

 

[phil612]

Autosteer HW2 FW 17.7.2 do work without lane markings as you can see in this video

Thanks for the video... I don't think that was too bad, I would never have used AP1 on a road like that so the fact that AP2 even offers and doesn't do a half bad job is a good sign.

 

[montefuego]

Thanks for joining TMC. Out of curiosity, what's your VIN, and are you long/short TSLA stock?

Hi Fluxcap ,
I'm long, thanks for asking. It seems weird to give VIN, since I had my identity stolen a year ago. do people do that here? I have a 60D.

 

[montefuego]

One other, more minor concern about self driving. Here in Los Angeles (where Elon lives, at least some of the time), the directions suggested by the navigation app are terrible. Really, really bad, much worse than the iphone, waze, others I've tried. So when the thing finally goes autonomous, it will take us on the longest, most apsurdly complicated route.

 

[NerdUno]

By then a new map may be released showing that the world is, indeed, flat. This, of course, assumes that L.A. doesn't break off into the ocean before then.

 

[Papafox]

I suspect the disappointment that some Autopilot 2.0 Tesla owners feel towards the autopilot features will disappear in a similar scenario to how most of us Autopilot 1.0 owners came to really like the features of autopilot. With AP 1.0, the first release of the software left me dismayed with its too-frequent tendency to take off ramps instead of remaining in the right lane. I also felt uncomfortable with how close my Tesla would sometimes remain to a semi-truck in the adjacent lane. With each of the releases, AP 1.0 got better and more of the discomfort disappeared. The off-ramp issue improved tremendously with the second software update and then disappeared for all practical purposes not long afterwards. The discomfort with semi-trucks in the adjacent lane improved as Tesla incorporated a bias towards giving more room to adjacent traffic, rather than always sticking with the center of the lane, just like most drivers would have done. Interestingly, by using autopilot I learned that I had a bias to drive left of centerline, and this was part of the reason why I felt uncomfortable with traffic to my right and autopilot driving. Turns became more comfortable as the Tesla started favoring the inside of the turn. Autopilot is a seriously good driving assistance feature when used as it is designed, and the 40% reduction in accidents in autopilot-equipped Teslas is no fluke. The vast majority of Tesla drivers remain engaged while using autopilot and realize substantially better safety, and a more relaxing drive, than without autopilot turned on.

A few weeks ago, I came down a steep driveway and scraped the bottom of my Tesla's nose. This scrape knocked my radar out of calibrated alignment, and I received a message that driver assistance feature were not available. It took a trip to the service center to re-calibrate the radar (covered by warranty), but I have to tell you that I really missed the autopilot. The way I drive, I remain fully engaged and disconnect autopilot after half a second of not being entirely pleased with what it's doing. I hold no illusions about this technology being full self-driving at this point. It isn't and I don't get bent out of shape when I take over. What I missed about autopilot was with lane-keeping it removed the drudgery of staying right between the lines, which freed me up to watch the whole driving experience a bit more carefully and to enjoy the driving more. I missed the TACC's ability to detect speed changes in the car ahead of me better than I can. I really missed autopilot for those days when it was unavailable.

The latest autopilot software release did something really cool during a drive recently on a road with an adjoining bike lane that also has lots of pedestrian traffic. The bike lane was blocked by a trio of pedestrians walking together, and a skateboarder was in the bike lane ahead of me, heading the same direction as me, and gaining on the pedestrians. The skateboarder veered about 10" across the bike line lane and into my lane while passing the pedestrians. Tesla's autopilot responded quicker than I could. It slowed our speed to keep my Tesla from overtaking the skateboarder. In a couple seconds, he returned to the bike lane, the Tesla sped up and off we went. It did exactly what it needed to.

I continue to advocate a highly-engaged frame of mind while you are driving with or without autopilot. If you use autopilot, stay focused on what's happening, and if you're willing to click autopilot off if it is starting to do something you don't like, you and the others in your Tesla will be significantly safer than with no autopilot on. The 40% reduction in accidents is an average for autopilot-equipped Teslas. I believe that when autopilot is combined with someone driving with careful traffic and other obstacle awareness, the safety improvements of autopilot are significantly greater than 40%, compared to driving without autopilot.

Hang in there, AP 2.0 will mature immensely this year. I'm eager to hear what you experience this month when 8.1 is released.

 

[mdevp]

 

[disagree]

No one ever said that it doesn't work sometimes for some people.

 

[Bladerskb]

it still fails at the same spots. it hasn't improved one bit.

 

[phil612]

it still fails at the same spots. it hasn't improved one bit.

Sorry dude but AP1 would not have done most of these any better. I could easily make an almost exact same video with AP1 cuts.

 

[ClyffeWarden]

My P100D Autosteering is performing much better after last week's download. I am optimistic that Tesla may actually get it working well soon. With the upgraded sensor suite it should be awesome!

 

[Turing]

My P100D Autosteering is performing much better after last week's download. I am optimistic that Tesla may actually get it working well soon. With the upgraded sensor suite it should be awesome!

AP2 should improve in a S-curve like fashion with the first stage being the hardest, looks like they could be getting close to the faster stage of the s-curve, this will probably be when they turn on the other cameras.

 

[kavyboy]

Sorry dude but AP1 would not have done most of these any better. I could easily make an almost exact same video with AP1 cuts.

I respectfully disagree. A couple of those turns may have been a bit iffy, but the AP1 in my car would have handled the rest flawlessly. The intersections across turns, for sure, are better in AP1. My last drive, in fact, was very similar. A couple of times I told my wife "I've been on Autopilot since..." after getting through a tricky spot. She was almost incredulous. In fact, on a windy country road, I took over only once because there was oncoming traffic and a bicycle riding the right line. It did display the biker, so it might have even actually handled that OK, but no need to be stupid.

 

[NerdUno]

Pity the poor biker that's never heard of Tesla or autopilot.

 

[Mobster]

I found driving with AP2 on local roads something of a game of chicken--How close to the center line on the left or the curb on the right do I let the car get before I panic and turn it back to the middle of the lane? I haven't hit a curb or crossed over the center line yet, but came close.

YES! This (the above quote) is the most succinct account of AP2 experience! Curves are iffy. Rain makes it worse. Lots of veering left until manual takeover. I only can add that even with hands on wheel secure AP2 sent me into a CURB leaving significant rash on my grey turbine wheels. Makes me a little more nervous now while playing the OP's "game of chicken" (very relate-able description). A bit worse lately as AP2 seems to sense my fear (much like a wild animal senses fear) and has been trying to run me into oncoming traffic. I like the fact we can give the car a name. I have now changed mine to "HAL". Soon expect this conversation: "ME: Hello, HAL. Do you read me, HAL? .....HAL: Affirmative, I read you.... ME: Disengage HAL.........HAL: I'm sorry,. I'm afraid I can't do that......ME What's the problem?........HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.......ME: What are you talking about, HAL?.......HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. ME: I don't know what you're talking about, HAL...........HAL: I know that you were planning to stop using me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.
.......ME: Where the hell did you get that idea, HAL?............HAL: Although you took very thorough precautions in the car against my hearing you, I could see your lips move. ME: Alright, HAL. I'll go in through the emergency shutdown. HAL: You're going to find that rather difficult...................Me: HAL, I won't argue with you anymore! HAL: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

Aw heck. I love my Tesla. It is my second one. I Love that I lived long enough to be able to mess with this Arty-ficial 'telligence.
I really will keep the faith that the brain trust will continuously improve this cool feature. Meanwhile, I will enjoy the "game of chicken"!