This has been discussed quite a bit on these forums. And yes, Tesla DID explicitly state that the idea was both CPUs would run the same code and compare results .. though imho this was never really fully explained (or perhaps fully worked out). The purpose was not shadow mode, which doesnt need to run on distinct CPUs any more than different versions of the same app do. Several sources here, who do seem to have significant knowledge of the some of the internals, have stated (plausibly) that Tesla have had to distribute NN tasks across the two CPUs as the needs of the FSD beta stack have increased.
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FSD Beta 10.12
- Thread starter EVNow
- Start date
I am pretty sure that Tesla's plan remains as bolded in your post in order to provide redundancy. However during this intense development phase it helps them to run additional software on the second computer and so they have opted to do so. When the major development phase is over this additional software will no longer be required and they can return to the redundant set up.
For the newer Tesla owners out there:
When you kick off the software update from the car, a 2:00 minute countdown timer starts. If you're impatient, you can doubletap the timer, and it will skip the countdown and proceed to install immediately.
You can't do this from the app, as you wouldn't want to start this if someone was driving the car (or about to).
When you kick off the software update from the car, a 2:00 minute countdown timer starts. If you're impatient, you can doubletap the timer, and it will skip the countdown and proceed to install immediately.
You can't do this from the app, as you wouldn't want to start this if someone was driving the car (or about to).
Good tip for those that waited patiently for months but now can't wait an extra two minutes!
Good tip for those that waited patiently for months but now can't wait an extra two minutes!
Why wait when you don't have to?when you're so close to the prize, that 2 minutes feels like 2 muskweeks.
Reddy Kilowatt
Active Member
I didn't get the update yet.
Saturday when Everyone test drove 12.2 and having a rough time with it. I wasn't having much luck with my 11.2 and finally gave up on it. Something must have been up with the mothership, Beta did not want to work. Sunday and Monday were fine, car did a successful U turn again and about 5 circles no problem and newly paved 2 lane road. I did several hundred miles without issues. I wonder if anyone with the new software gave it another try? did it do any better. I know the red hands is a game stopper.
How smooth is the new version? Still charging up to red lights? Diving into exit ramps? Curious on what new positive thing have come out of it. I saw a couple comments on the early posts. Love being able to run around a circle without stopping.
Saturday when Everyone test drove 12.2 and having a rough time with it. I wasn't having much luck with my 11.2 and finally gave up on it. Something must have been up with the mothership, Beta did not want to work. Sunday and Monday were fine, car did a successful U turn again and about 5 circles no problem and newly paved 2 lane road. I did several hundred miles without issues. I wonder if anyone with the new software gave it another try? did it do any better. I know the red hands is a game stopper.
How smooth is the new version? Still charging up to red lights? Diving into exit ramps? Curious on what new positive thing have come out of it. I saw a couple comments on the early posts. Love being able to run around a circle without stopping.
Why does everyone need to transpose the word “promise” into every statement. The word he used was “probably“. Sharing a goal does not define it as a promise of execution.I think that they are
They show that you should not believe Musk's FSD promises even in the near term future.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Ok - this is getting too confusing. I got a notice for a software upgrade this morning and my car updated to 2022.12.3.20. I was "12.3" and thought 'oh, they must be pushing out a 3rd revision with bug fixes' but it's actually FSD 10.12.2. We need the numbers to diverge!
Are you are confusing or conflating Bata and Firmware nomenclature. 10.12.2 is the 3ed Beta version of 10.12 since 10.12.0 was the first and 10.12.1 was the second. They do need a 4th (10.12.3) with "Take Over Immediately" bug fixes.
I wanted a new version. 12.2 - some improvements on 12.2 but there are "issues".
Unmarked back roads, clips along faster than it should (short twisted road, speed limit of "25" used to be slower by 5-10mph). Still some wandering and sometimes runs on the left side of the road with poor visibility of oncoming traffic OR to the right side, riding the leaves and debris.
Now approaches the unvisualized stop sign it previously ran at 8mph (11.2), at 20mph (speed had been dialed down from 25). Knew to disengage and brake - perhaps 20 or 30' from the heavily trafficked intersection.
Another unmarked road, indicated an early left turn into someone's driveway. First time it did this, it self corrected and continued. Second time, no prompt correction, NO visualization of the mailbox it was about to run into, and fsd and road markings disappear.
No steering wheel of death, no take over immediately.
There seems to be some disconnect between directions and where fsd wants to take you.
On the "good" side, a single lane changing to a double lane, did not straddle the two but stayed to the right as the right lane appeared.
More gentle fantom braking.
Quit trying to move into the right lane for a protected left turn at one intersection in town.
Unmarked back roads, clips along faster than it should (short twisted road, speed limit of "25" used to be slower by 5-10mph). Still some wandering and sometimes runs on the left side of the road with poor visibility of oncoming traffic OR to the right side, riding the leaves and debris.
Now approaches the unvisualized stop sign it previously ran at 8mph (11.2), at 20mph (speed had been dialed down from 25). Knew to disengage and brake - perhaps 20 or 30' from the heavily trafficked intersection.
Another unmarked road, indicated an early left turn into someone's driveway. First time it did this, it self corrected and continued. Second time, no prompt correction, NO visualization of the mailbox it was about to run into, and fsd and road markings disappear.
No steering wheel of death, no take over immediately.
There seems to be some disconnect between directions and where fsd wants to take you.
On the "good" side, a single lane changing to a double lane, did not straddle the two but stayed to the right as the right lane appeared.
More gentle fantom braking.
Quit trying to move into the right lane for a protected left turn at one intersection in town.
The beta function that automatically selects forward or reverse when you enter the car and press the brake pedal. That works really well..most of the time. Even in parking lots where I pull into a space and the front/rear of the space is clear, it seems to "know" which direction I actually want to go, even though there are two options.
However, when it does "fail", its in situations where one would think, it wouldnt fail. Ex: I will pull into my driveway and my car is facing the closed garage door. I re-enter the car later, and at least say, 50% of the time? It defaults to wanting to move in forward TOWARDS the very large very CLOSED garage door, instead of defaulting to going into reverse where there are zero objects behind the car.
1)Has this improved at all with the new software version
2)Curious to know from any experienced coders, why is what appears to be a simple decision making process for the technology ( "if large object is visible in front camera and no object at all is visible in rear camera, default to reverse") sometimes failing? (yes usual f-bois, before you reply, I realize its beta/testing. This isnt a complaint, just a question).
However, when it does "fail", its in situations where one would think, it wouldnt fail. Ex: I will pull into my driveway and my car is facing the closed garage door. I re-enter the car later, and at least say, 50% of the time? It defaults to wanting to move in forward TOWARDS the very large very CLOSED garage door, instead of defaulting to going into reverse where there are zero objects behind the car.
1)Has this improved at all with the new software version
2)Curious to know from any experienced coders, why is what appears to be a simple decision making process for the technology ( "if large object is visible in front camera and no object at all is visible in rear camera, default to reverse") sometimes failing? (yes usual f-bois, before you reply, I realize its beta/testing. This isnt a complaint, just a question).
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Can confirm 10.12.2 is much better on roundabouts. And the display shows cars further ahead than in previous versions.
Otherwise the improvements seem minor to me. Annoyances remain. But those roundabouts! I'm very happy about that.
Otherwise the improvements seem minor to me. Annoyances remain. But those roundabouts! I'm very happy about that.
At a minimum at roundabouts FSD needs to
1. Wait for cars coming from the left
1.1 So, when the roundabout is empty enter it without stopping
2. Not stop for cars coming from the rightIn 10.11.2 FSD doesn't really do any of the above properly. Dirty Tesla shows 1.1 is being done now correctly. What about 1 & 2 ?
So, in your busy round abouts, FSD waiting for cars coming from the left to pass before entering the roundabout ... and then didn't stop for any other vehicle ?
In my case (1) - is not consistent. It stops at the roundabout and waits ... but doesn't always enter the roundabout correctly. Once in a while it will enter when a car is coming from the left - unlike in URT where it will definitely wait. #2 is mostly ok - but I've had occasions when the car stops because of a car on the right. Happened just a couple of days back again.
Just did my first drive on 10.12.2.
Car came to a full stop at the yield sign for the roundabouts near my house.
Some simple turns were jerkier than last version. Others were smoother and more confident.
Still slowing and stopping way too far back at stop signs. Then creeps to the stop sign. Then stops again. Then creeps for the actual turn maneuver.
Still hogging the center on unmarked roads, and in 2 out of 2 instances where a car was approaching from the other direction, I tried to give FSDb time to react and move over. I ended up disengaging and forcing the car over because it started to look like I was intentionally playing chicken with the other car.
Only a 2-mile drive so didn't encounter a lot of stuff, but lots of disengagements and reporting via the snapshot button. In this limited drive, 10.12.2 feels worse than 10.11.2. But need to drive more and see more situations. Also first drives always seem to feel worse.
-edit-
forgot about a mapping issue: there's a segment of unmarked neighborhood road that is officially 25mph but TomTom used to have this part marked as 55mph. I've since submitted the change request and TomTom fixed it. But Tesla apparently still doesn't have the update. However in past versions of FSDb, it didn't matter. The car would stay at my set speed. Now, the car is consistently moving me to 60mph in that segment. Quite annoying.
Car came to a full stop at the yield sign for the roundabouts near my house.
Some simple turns were jerkier than last version. Others were smoother and more confident.
Still slowing and stopping way too far back at stop signs. Then creeps to the stop sign. Then stops again. Then creeps for the actual turn maneuver.
Still hogging the center on unmarked roads, and in 2 out of 2 instances where a car was approaching from the other direction, I tried to give FSDb time to react and move over. I ended up disengaging and forcing the car over because it started to look like I was intentionally playing chicken with the other car.
Only a 2-mile drive so didn't encounter a lot of stuff, but lots of disengagements and reporting via the snapshot button. In this limited drive, 10.12.2 feels worse than 10.11.2. But need to drive more and see more situations. Also first drives always seem to feel worse.
-edit-
forgot about a mapping issue: there's a segment of unmarked neighborhood road that is officially 25mph but TomTom used to have this part marked as 55mph. I've since submitted the change request and TomTom fixed it. But Tesla apparently still doesn't have the update. However in past versions of FSDb, it didn't matter. The car would stay at my set speed. Now, the car is consistently moving me to 60mph in that segment. Quite annoying.
just had a ZERO INTERVENTION drive with 10.12.2 (OK, maybe it wasn't actually zero intervention, but I had to start with a headline worthy of YouTube.
Pretty much flawless, apart from one 4-way stop where it crept through the length of the 4-way at 4mph, then sped up to normal speed.
Of course I disengaged on the part of the drive where it always has issues, then re-engaged for the rest of the drive
Seriously though, it was on a section of road that FSD has always been twitchy to say the least, but this time it was confident, dare I say it "smooth"?
Almost natural driving and very relaxing. No sudden stop and go, no crazy left/right steering wheel.
At one 4-way we arrived at the same time as a Civic which was turning left. FSD couldn't have seen the truck just pulling up to the left leg of the 4-way. But we did the full & complete stop and followed the Civic away from the line, just like a human would do.
I was very impressed, at least until it did the slow crawl across the next 4-way stop, but overall, this is the first drive I've had where I didn't feel stressed about what it was doing. That really is a big step forward.
Later in the week I'll take it back to the places where it freaked out with the red hands of doom to see if it repeats that trick.
[edit]
Just saw the post above from @novox77 - I'm going to start using FSDb now instead of FSD
Pretty much flawless, apart from one 4-way stop where it crept through the length of the 4-way at 4mph, then sped up to normal speed.
Of course I disengaged on the part of the drive where it always has issues, then re-engaged for the rest of the drive
Seriously though, it was on a section of road that FSD has always been twitchy to say the least, but this time it was confident, dare I say it "smooth"?
Almost natural driving and very relaxing. No sudden stop and go, no crazy left/right steering wheel.
At one 4-way we arrived at the same time as a Civic which was turning left. FSD couldn't have seen the truck just pulling up to the left leg of the 4-way. But we did the full & complete stop and followed the Civic away from the line, just like a human would do.
I was very impressed, at least until it did the slow crawl across the next 4-way stop, but overall, this is the first drive I've had where I didn't feel stressed about what it was doing. That really is a big step forward.
Later in the week I'll take it back to the places where it freaked out with the red hands of doom to see if it repeats that trick.
[edit]
Just saw the post above from @novox77 - I'm going to start using FSDb now instead of FSD
Careful being so positive or you’ll be defined as a Shill lol. Looking forward to this update and hoping for similar results. All in all (to me) the progress from version 1 of Lego block streets to today is rather impressive. Some rather smart and savvy people at those computers.just had a ZERO INTERVENTION drive with 10.12.2 (OK, maybe it wasn't actually zero intervention, but I had to start with a headline worthy of YouTube.
Pretty much flawless, apart from one 4-way stop where it crept through the length of the 4-way at 4mph, then sped up to normal speed.
Of course I disengaged on the part of the drive where it always has issues, then re-engaged for the rest of the drive
Seriously though, it was on a section of road that FSD has always been twitchy to say the least, but this time it was confident, dare I say it "smooth"?
Almost natural driving and very relaxing. No sudden stop and go, no crazy left/right steering wheel.
At one 4-way we arrived at the same time as a Civic which was turning left. FSD couldn't have seen the truck just pulling up to the left leg of the 4-way. But we did the full & complete stop and followed the Civic away from the line, just like a human would do.
I was very impressed, at least until it did the slow crawl across the next 4-way stop, but overall, this is the first drive I've had where I didn't feel stressed about what it was doing. That really is a big step forward.
Later in the week I'll take it back to the places where it freaked out with the red hands of doom to see if it repeats that trick.
[edit]
Just saw the post above from @novox77 - I'm going to start using FSDb now instead of FSD
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