FSD Beta 10.69

[Acisplat]

That's simply remote control and would be moving away from autonomous driving instead of toward it.

Not everyone wants an autonomous vehicle 100% of the time.
People drive differently and prefer doing things themselves in certain situations. I'm in FSD beta, and I still have NoA on the freeway set to lane confirmation with turn signal because I can see further ahead than the car can and know it will be faster if I pass a few cars on the right instead of getting behind them too early.

 

[DarkForest]

Not everyone wants an autonomous vehicle 100% of the time.
People drive differently and prefer doing things themselves in certain situations. I'm in FSD beta, and I still have NoA on the freeway set to lane confirmation with turn signal because I can see further ahead than the car can and know it will be faster if I pass a few cars on the right instead of getting behind them too early.

It’ll be interesting to see how they cater FSD for different driving preferences and geolocations. Initially, the Beta was way too aggressive for me, but I’ve gotten used to it. I don’t think everyone else will want to “get used to it,” though (whether they think it’s too aggressive, too chill, or whatever).

It reminds me of smart phone OSs. From my perspective, iOS tends to tell users how it’s going to be with little to no ability to tweak things, whereas Android gives users a lot of customizability with little to no recommended/polished/standard path. (Disclaimer: I’ve owned about 12 iPhones and 2 Samsung phones.)

Tesla seems to lean towards doing things the Apple way, so I don’t seem them giving us too much customizability. I think it’ll be a whole mental process for us as drivers (accustomed to being in control) to become used to being passengers (with less control but with the ability to lay back and relax).

 

[sleepydoc]

It’ll be interesting to see how they cater FSD for different driving preferences and geolocations. Initially, the Beta was way too aggressive for me, but I’ve gotten used to it. I don’t think everyone else will want to “get used to it,” though (whether they think it’s too aggressive, too chill, or whatever).

It reminds me of smart phone OSs. From my perspective, iOS tends to tell users how it’s going to be with little to no ability to tweak things, whereas Android gives users a lot of customizability with little to no recommended/polished/standard path. (Disclaimer: I’ve owned about 12 iPhones and 2 Samsung phones.)

Tesla seems to lean towards doing things the Apple way, so I don’t seem them giving us too much customizability. I think it’ll be a whole mental process for us as drivers (accustomed to being in control) to become used to being passengers (with less control but with the ability to lay back and relax).

Interestingly, I was just taking my son to the airport and he commented how he doesn’t like how late FSD brakes. I happen to agree with him - I think it should brake far earlier and more gently, but I remember our former neighbor from New Jersey. He would have complained about FSD braking too soon!

To some extent I compare it to riding a Lyft than driving myself. If someone else is doing the driving you have to accept that it may not be how you would drive as long as it’s safe. It’s very possible that they may add adjustments in the future for driving style or even automatic regional adjustments; I view that more as ’bells and whistles.’ Let’s get solid functionality first, then we can work on adjustments.

 

[Supcom]

Not everyone wants an autonomous vehicle 100% of the time.
People drive differently and prefer doing things themselves in certain situations. I'm in FSD beta, and I still have NoA on the freeway set to lane confirmation with turn signal because I can see further ahead than the car can and know it will be faster if I pass a few cars on the right instead of getting behind them too early.

Even when set to change lanes without confirmation, you can still command NOA to do a lane change (or cancel one) with the left stalk. Same goes for the current FSDb.

 

[Acisplat]

Even when set to change lanes without confirmation, you can still command NOA to do a lane change (or cancel one) with the left stalk. Same goes for the current FSDb.

FSDb lane changes can happen in less than 1 second of any notice on the screen, and that's the issue I have with it.
There's nothing to be lost by making "lane change on turn signal" a feature flag for those that want it.

 

[Supcom]

FSDb lane changes can happen in less than 1 second of any notice on the screen, and that's the issue I have with it.
There's nothing to be lost by making "lane change on turn signal" a feature flag for those that want it.

Since FSDb does not have this feature currently, it would seem unlikely that it will be added. It seems to go against the direction that Tesla is heading.

 

[Acisplat]

Since FSDb does not have this feature currently, it would seem unlikely that it will be added. It seems to go against the direction that Tesla is heading.

When FSDb originally rolled out to public testers past the OG, they added the Chill, Average, and Assertive modes with zero notice.
If FSDb is meant to rollout to every vehicle in the fleet I'm sure they will add additional comfort and safety flags for people that have never experienced it before.

 

[arnolddeleon]

FSDb lane changes can happen in less than 1 second of any notice on the screen, and that's the issue I have with it.
There's nothing to be lost by making "lane change on turn signal" a feature flag for those that want it.

You can also set it vibrate the steering wheel and it won't change lanes unless it confirms that you have torque on the wheel. I don't know that that is has ever initiated a lane change that I wasn't aware off and had no time to cancel. My wife uses a different configuration, she has it set to always ask confirmation which is pretty much what you want. It won't do lane changes unless you approve the suggested one or request one. I also can request a lane whenever I want one.

 

[Supcom]

You can also set it vibrate the steering wheel and it won't change lanes unless it confirms that you have torque on the wheel. I don't know that that is has ever initiated a lane change that I wasn't aware off and had no time to cancel. My wife uses a different configuration, she has it set to always ask confirmation which is pretty much what you want. It won't do lane changes unless you approve the suggested one or request one. I also can request a lane whenever I want one.

FSDb does not have those options, so extending it to highways may no longer provide those legacy NOA settings.

 

[Acisplat]

You can also set it vibrate the steering wheel and it won't change lanes unless it confirms that you have torque on the wheel. I don't know that that is has ever initiated a lane change that I wasn't aware off and had no time to cancel. My wife uses a different configuration, she has it set to always ask confirmation which is pretty much what you want. It won't do lane changes unless you approve the suggested one or request one. I also can request a lane whenever I want one.

That sounds like freeway NoA stack, not FSD beta.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

FSDb does not have those options, so extending it to highways may no longer provide those legacy NOA settings.

It’s possible that the options may not be provided, I guess. I don’t understand why people are making this logical leap though.

The settings are completely separate from the stack decision making and perception and planning. Bringing FSDb to freeways does not really have any effect on these settings. Just bring the stack over, leave the options. The car knows when it’s on a road where it should leave decision making up to the driver, just like it does now.

And of course, disabling these options would bring NOA use (and possibly AP use too, though I guess it should be fine and won’t make any lane changes) to zero on the freeway.

NOA is still a distinct product and I think it will remain so even with single stack (so can be customized). Though exactly how these will be merged with FSDb is not clear. What we’re getting with all of this is Autosteer on City Streets, and NOA should be an unchanged product in terms of features (just working better and running on the same stack as City Streets, allegedly). After all, people without FSDb who have NOA will get exactly the same product (with HW3 anyway).

Tesla has to be able to know when options should apply, otherwise they could not provide product differentiation to AP, EAP, and FSD.

 

[arnolddeleon]

That sounds like freeway NoA stack, not FSD beta.

Whoops, yes it is. I forgot this was FSDb thread, I thought you were talking about the freeway behavior.
Apropos to FSDb street behavior, I don't recall it ever changing lanes without being able to cancel it (by holding the wheel or turn signal). The car already looks like an idiot with the random turn signals. But I agree, there is probably an opportunity for a setting here to make the human/car interface better here.

 

[Acisplat]

I don't think adding the possibility of adding toggles to automatic lane changes is going to be insanity like a lot of people think, just because FSD city streets hasn't featured that flag before.
People are buying cars with basic autopilot and their highway stack will need to be replaced as well, and that will be a cut-down FSD stack without automatic lane changes.

 

[EVNow]

To some extent I compare it to riding a Lyft than driving myself. If someone else is doing the driving you have to accept that it may not be how you would drive as long as it’s safe.

They already have 3 modes. They need to actually implement them. Definitely a later down the list item.

BTW I’d use Chill / Limousine and that definitely should brake early and smoothly.

 

[KArnold]

Since FSDb does not have this feature currently, it would seem unlikely that it will be added. It seems to go against the direction that Tesla is heading.

IMHO, there will no longer be a "lane change confirmation" option once FSD replaces Nav on AP. It's either off, advanced cruise, or full FSD.

First for the reason above. Second, I suspect Tesla in their arrogance would consider that to be unnecessary, as FSD should do it better than a person. Therefore, why spend time in a throw-away option? Of course, we all know that's a fantasy as FSD has a ton yet to learn, but Tesla isn't exactly known for asking consumers opinion on changes.

I hope I'm wrong. I default to auto lane changes but also regularly turn it off for many reasons for various conditions.

Then again, we might be over-thinking this. For example, if traffic is moving at speed but relatively busy, I'll often hit the blue button (on MS) to turn NAV off if I'm within a mile of my next exit. Today FSD would not hesitate to change to a faster lane but not take into consideration the 1/2 mile of backed up cars in the right lane all wanting to exit. Essentially doing that today changes me from Nav to Cruise - not that big of a deal. To do the same with FSD is a 2-step process - first disable FSD, then engage Cruise. Or do the same by torquing the steering wheel I believe - FSD off, Cruise remains enabled.

Might be "different" but I'm not sure it's a bad thing. As time goes on and FSD gets smarter, it will become less and less necessary perhaps.

 

[HELLAWATTS]

You can also set it vibrate the steering wheel and it won't change lanes unless it confirms that you have torque on the wheel. I don't know that that is has ever initiated a lane change that I wasn't aware off and had no time to cancel. My wife uses a different configuration, she has it set to always ask confirmation which is pretty much what you want. It won't do lane changes unless you approve the suggested one or request one. I also can request a lane whenever I want one.

What model and year Tesla do you have for the steering wheel to vibrate?

 

[JulienW]

What model and year Tesla do you have for the steering wheel to vibrate?

I'm gonna say all, unless it wasn't in older Model S'.

 

[archae86]

What model and year Tesla do you have for the steering wheel to vibrate?

My 2022 Y and 2023 3 both vibrate the steering wheel for certain situations.

 

[enemji]

To some extent I compare it to riding a Lyft than driving myself. If someone else is doing the driving you have to accept that it may not be how you would drive as long as it’s safe. It’s very possible that they may add adjustments in the future for driving style or even automatic regional adjustments; I view that more as ’bells and whistles.’ Let’s get solid functionality first, then we can work on adjustments.

Yup! I think I also said something to that extent a while back of letting go of the controlling nature of expecting the driver to drive for you the way you would drive. Same applies to Tesla. As long as it is safe, one needs to learn to accept that there is more than one way to drive safely.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Since FSDb does not have this feature currently, it would seem unlikely that it will be added. It seems to go against the direction that Tesla is heading.

It won’t be added, it already exists.

I don't think adding the possibility of adding toggles to automatic lane changes is going to be insanity like a lot of people think, just because FSD city streets hasn't featured that flag before.

Yeah it is not insanity, since they already have the toggles! They don’t even need to add them.

Then again, we might be over-thinking this.

Yes.

There are two products, NOA and FSDb (which just adds Autosteer on City Streets and Traffic Light Stop sign stuff which will probably be subsumed).

NOA is not going to change significantly. It is just going to run on the same stack. No reason for it to change.

Just like before, you can in theory have it drive on the freeway and everywhere else with no intervention.

Whether they’ll add control on surface streets to prevent lane changes is another issue. Seems much less useful and likely to cause problems for routing so I doubt it. A lot more required lane movement on City Streets, unlike the mostly optional lane changes on the freeway.