FSD Beta 10.69

[auger]

I just got the notification, too. Very surprising.

I only got into the FSD program in May and definitely not influential. I have a drive on a rural highway I do once or twice a week that has two well marked, four way stop intersections that I don't turn on. One intersection has stop signs; the other has stop signs with large, overhead flashing red lights. FSD doesn't even think about slowing down or stopping.

On the same drive, I have another intersection with a stop sign and a left turn. FSD proceeds to the middle of the intersecting road and stops.

I've pressed the record button several times to send this behavior to Tesla. It will be interesting to see what happens next time.

So to update my post, I made this drive today.

The ULT where FSD stopped every time in the middle of the road worked perfectly tonight.

The two four-way stops were better but far from satisfactory. Before, FSD would barrel right through. Tonight, I got hard, last minute braking but not enough to stop before the intersection. I had to take over and manually brake with anti-skid on dry pavement to stop in time.

Also, before this update, FSD would frequently drift over the center yellow lines on curves on this drive. I saw none of that today.

 

[arnolddeleon]

This has been an ongoing issue for me. Right turn on controlled 4-way. As soon as you make a right there is another light. Literally one car length long.

Beta ALWAYS tries to run it. Every time. It doesn't check, or expect so soon another light.

There is a tall building on the corner so you can't even see the next light until you've started to complete the turn.

If I can see it and react then the car should have no problem !

Report it each time.

Hmm, I have almost the opposite problem. Left on onto a freeway on ramp. There is a traffic light at the entrance of the ramp intended for vehicles on the opposite side of the ramp. When my car turns left towards the ramp it "sees" the light and wants to stop. With the previous version it would hesitate but it seemingly figures it out, with 10.69.1.1 it felt like it was going to stop (I intervened since there was traffic around me).

 

[powertoold]

lol good lord:

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

lol good lord:

I’m not sure what is remarkable about this. This is bog standard behavior. NBD.

 

[jabloomf1230]

Today, I experienced another missed turn in navigation with 10.69.1.1. It also failed on a series of multilane roundabouts, but that's nothing new. At the first one, the navigation displayed proceeding straight through the roundabout ("2nd exit"). The car entered in the outer lane, but proceeded to move into the inner circle and then exited the roundabout. Fortunately, the traffic level was low, so I let FSD beta do its thing. Multilane roundabouts are a tough nut to crack, so the beta team probably doesn't have it as an immediate priority. They really need to undertake a comparable effort equivalent to that used to solve Chuck's ULT.

The issue with FSD beta missing turns in navigation is a new issue for me, although a few other drivers have reported this in prior firmware versions.

 

[boonedocks]

I think running red lights is a major bug. It's not just me either:

FSD Beta 10.69

I installed 10.69.1.1 earlier this afternoon on my refresh 2022 MSLR. I did dual scroll wheel reset and went for my drive. Some improvements and some mishaps. -The car made smooth lane transfers and did not make abrupt lane changes. -The car moved very fast and abruptly stops for the red...

teslamotorsclub.com

Links to previous posts often don't work, but if it doesn't scroll up a few pages in this thread to the post by @Kyrne.

If it is so bad that you feel the roll out should be halted I sure hope you have disabled it in your car!!

 

[Bladerskb]

Multiple disengagements, still has trouble with some road layouts.

 

[willow_hiller]

Multiple disengagements, still has trouble with some road layouts.

In case you didn't notice, that's from 10.69.1, not the latest version.

 

[nvx1977]

My feeling is that it might actually be a bit useful in a broader set of scenarios and reduce some mental effort if it actually fixed some of these behaviors. I’m not certain, because that’s not what we have, but it seems possible.

Reduction of mental effort is the main utility. I agree with @aronth5 in that once you've become familiar with how FSD (and AP before it) behaves, you can take over (which then becomes baseline mental effort of driving). Everywhere else where FSDb is decent, you reduce mental effort.

AP example from 2018-2020: if i was happening to be traveling in the right-most lane on the highway and an onramp was merging into my lane, I would either initiate a move-over to the left, or disengage AP. Why? Because I know AP doesn't handle that merge well and will swerve to the right to find the center of the wider space. I don't need to suffer through the stress of having AP actually perform the stressful maneuver. I preempt it, then resume AP and resume reduced cognitive load.

My drives are pretty consistent, so FSDb's behavior on a given version is typically also consistent. I know where the problem areas are, and I can proactively disengage, or intervene with a speed change or accel nudge. Starting around 10.10, I started to USE fsdb instead of just testing it. That was when I felt FSDb was good enough to derive utility in the form of reduced cognitive load of driving.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Reduction of mental effort is the main utility. I agree with @aronth5 in that once you've become familiar with how FSD (and AP before it) behaves, you can take over (which then becomes baseline mental effort of driving). Everywhere else where FSDb is decent, you reduce mental effort.

AP example from 2018-2020: if i was happening to be traveling in the right-most lane on the highway and an onramp was merging into my lane, I would either initiate a move-over to the left, or disengage AP. Why? Because I know AP doesn't handle that merge well and will swerve to the right to find the center of the wider space. I don't need to suffer through the stress of having AP actually perform the stressful maneuver. I preempt it, then resume AP and resume reduced cognitive load.

My drives are pretty consistent, so FSDb's behavior on a given version is typically also consistent. I know where the problem areas are, and I can proactively disengage, or intervene with a speed change or accel nudge. Starting around 10.10, I started to USE fsdb instead of just testing it. That was when I felt FSDb was good enough to derive utility in the form of reduced cognitive load of driving.

As I have said, there are places where this applies to FSDb. I just don’t really see it for City Streets.

 

[nvx1977]

As I have said, there are places where this applies to FSDb. I just don’t really see it for City Streets.

Prolly depends on what "city streets" are. I prefer to say "local streets" and mean anything not highway. But if we're talking literally within city limits, yeah, I don't think I would use FSDb in Boston. But in my little neck of suburbia woods, the car does very well in a lot of situations, to the point where I enjoy the reduced cognitive load of driving when FSDb is engaged.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Prolly depends on what "city streets" are. I prefer to say "local streets" and mean anything not highway. But if we're talking literally within city limits, yeah, I don't think I would use FSDb in Boston. But in my little neck of suburbia woods, the car does very well in a lot of situations, to the point where I enjoy the reduced cognitive load of driving when FSDb is engaged.

Right, I can see that, and that is what I specifically mentioned in my post about it not being useful (which people seemed to miss - it was really clear I thought it was useful in those specific scenarios…I thought). Guess not!

 

[nvx1977]

Right, I can see that, and that is what I specifically mentioned in my post about it not being useful (which people seemed to miss - it was really clear I thought it was useful in those specific scenarios…I thought). Guess not!

I think it's obvious that FSDb is not useful in some situations. I also agree with you (quite a bit) that as far as wide release goes, people have a certain expectation of a "fully self driving car" even if it's L2. And FSDb, even in the areas where for me personally it's already reducing cognitive load, will need to get much better at. That is how I've interpreted your many posts on your take on FSDb's readiness.

The tricky part is knowing what we would actually care about the day we aren't really paying attention (L4+). Would we even distinguish between a phantom brake and an actually necessary brake, given we're not looking up? Would we care that we slowed way too early for a stop sign? Would we care if the car took a long way around a block because a ULT was too tricky? Some of the things we gripe about now may be pretty inconsequential. Safety and comfort ultimately are the top priorities for mass adoption IMO.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I think it's obvious that FSDb is not useful in some situations. I also agree with you (quite a bit) that as far as wide release goes, people have a certain expectation of a "fully self driving car" even if it's L2. And FSDb, even in the areas where for me personally it's already reducing cognitive load, will need to get much better at. That is how I've interpreted your many posts on your take on FSDb's readiness.

The tricky part is knowing what we would actually care about the day we aren't really paying attention (L4+). Would we even distinguish between a phantom brake and an actually necessary brake, given we're not looking up? Would we care that we slowed way too early for a stop sign? Would we care if the car took a long way around a block because a ULT was too tricky? Some of the things we gripe about now may be pretty inconsequential. Safety and comfort ultimately are the top priorities for mass adoption IMO.

Yes, L4 does not need to be as good as (useful) L2, in many ways. It’s a little tricky!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Hot new video from Chuck. 6/10, not bad! That beer is going to be so good.

I think we have to ask ourselves if Chuck is losing his nerve.

Elon said this would be solved, and clearly we have no reason to doubt it. 10.69 only gets that name because it earned it.

 

[sleepydoc]

Right, I can see that, and that is what I specifically mentioned in my post about it not being useful (which people seemed to miss - it was really clear I thought it was useful in those specific scenarios…I thought). Guess not!

um, no you didn't. which is exactly why people called you out. If that's what you meant you should have said so or clarified.

Again, here's what you said:

I do sincerely hope that the polish that Elon says is coming in 10.69.2 actually happens. That would be awesome. It would actually be pretty great if this were something you could use to perform basic driving tasks between traffic lights and around turns, while monitoring it carefully.

Unfortunately, that’s not the way it is right now. Basically it is something that unless you are specifically testing it (a perfectly legitimate and fulfilling activity in its own right - and even fun as you watch the vehicle dive for a curb as it goes for a turn lane ), it is not useful. You have to immediately turn it off except in the most trivial driving situations (where it does moderately well - marked roads, no turns, no traffic, no pedestrians, no traffic control). In these situations, my wife will not notice it is being used - most of the time (and if it screws up once it has to be turned off).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

um, no you didn't. which is exactly why people called you out.

Again, here's what you said:

This isn’t complicated:

“ except in the most trivial driving situations (where it does moderately well - marked roads, no turns, no traffic, no pedestrians, no traffic control). In these situations, my wife will not notice it is being used”

If that’s not crystal clear that that is a useful use case, I am not sure what to say. I am not sure how I could be any more positive about those scenarios.

If that's what you meant you should have said so or clarified.

I don’t know how I could have been more clear about the situations where it does moderately well (and I would call it useful there, as was clear).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

A few more gems from my drive home last night. I lost count of my disengagements:

Normally I would never do this, since it's extremely inconsiderate to other drivers (and dangerous). I tried to make sure there was enough space to the vehicle behind, but since it slows down FAR too much, there ended up being not enough margin (should take corner at 25mph, and should move to the right!). On the upside, the subsequent left turn is much better than prior versions (though extremely slow, at least it doesn't dive across the corner and pretend there is no oncoming traffic around the blind corner ahead). How is this remotely usable? Why does the car not enter the bike lane? This poor Mercedes had to put up with me for miles (note it is the same one as in the last video).

Watch that regen bar!!! "Very inefficient" (Also, not fast!)
More of this quality behavior, the same place as in the video from yesterday (showing it does approximately the same thing every time in this spot):

Watch that regen bar!!!
This time it made it into these left turn lanes (failed yesterday), but then it jammed on the regen for absolutely no reason, followed by a random walk across lanes. The FCW beeping (for the red light I think) is because it was left in TACC.

Relaxing? Usable?

To be clear, these are areas where I would call it "not usable." There's just no utility; these problems MUST be fixed before wide release. I can press the accelerator on the first one to solve the problem, but why not just drive myself and get into the bike lane, where people won't hit me?

 

[Silicon Desert]

I guess that after reading some of the posts here, my definition of dangerous has been completely wrong all these decades. I thought that dangerous was trying to land on an aircraft carrier at night in the middle of a storm after being shot at in Vietnam

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I thought that dangerous was trying to land on an aircraft carrier at night in the middle of a storm after being shot at in Vietnam

Getting my car rear-ended and totaled because FSD Beta is being dumb is pretty dangerous. To the car. Not so much to me in the example above, I probably would have been fine.