That data is not available to the public, so you can think about it, but you have no means to evaluate it except anecdotally.
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FSD Beta 10.69
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
Gee, when I made that post, I didn't think my neighbor would be one of them. He leaned over the fence and said "It is already past midnight on Mars. Where is my FSD update?"The wife just said... "I'll bet you there will always be someone on the forum that when the clock ticks a couple minutes after midnight and they don't get a download, they will be bitching about it"
ADD: and I said I bet there will be dozens of people staying up to see if they do get it.
That's just the main branch they're merging the FSD beta code into, but the key FSD beta changes since 10.12 could still be similar enough to keep the same release notes. Hopefully they've made more progress on everything that isn't that left-hand turn though.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
This got me thinking as I was riding my bike today. Generally this is very dangerous when this happens.
It would be pretty cool if FSD automatically disengaged whenever it knew that it was unable to see far enough (or some other issue) to complete a maneuver. It seems like this could be confidence building for the user.
I would love for it to automatically disengage when it doesn't feel comfortable, or when it knows that a human is required to perform the task safely.
Issues are potentially that it could make users too confident and pay less attention in the case of no automatic disengagement. And of course uncommanded disengagements while in motion are potentially hazardous (I was thinking it might only do this when stationary and trying to negotiate an intersection).
Plus side is that you wouldn't have to count them as disengagements (arguably), since they're not due to mistakes made by the system.
Certainly right now we already have the unexplained red wheel of death alarms with sudden "take over" commands, but that's not really what I'm talking about of course (that's just when the system is confused about what is happening or what to do, usually). That's not the case for the above proposal - it would know exactly what to do, but it would know it just can't do it.
So what's going to happen when Tesla rolls out Autosteer on City Streets to everyone (end of "this" year) and it is still "Beta" code and requires vigilant attention and hands-on wheel (i.e., still just L2 ADAS, and a bad one at that)? What will the Teslarati be saying at that point? Will they crow about how far Tesla is ahead of the pack and how Elon made good on his promises, or will they start to realize FSD will never be what Elon is saying it will be?
Tesla really missed an opportunity here IMO. If they had put this effort into Navigate on AutoPilot, with a huge push to gather accurate, high resolution map data of highways and interchanges, they could probably have a true L3 highway driving system by now that could rival Cadillac and Mercedes. Autosteer on City Streets is a fools errand and shows what happens when your leadership is a little nutso!
Tesla really missed an opportunity here IMO. If they had put this effort into Navigate on AutoPilot, with a huge push to gather accurate, high resolution map data of highways and interchanges, they could probably have a true L3 highway driving system by now that could rival Cadillac and Mercedes. Autosteer on City Streets is a fools errand and shows what happens when your leadership is a little nutso!
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Wow. So negative for a Saturday morning. The Tesla FSD team is world class. They will solve this problem eventually it’s just going to take some patience on our side. If it was a simple problem to solve Waymo would be SAE L5 already and GM wouldn’t have cars permanently stopping in a simple scenario.
L3 is not worth wasting billions of development dollars on. Mercedes L3 system is a joke. Auto driving in traffic jams?
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
That sounds like an opinion from a financial position. I'm a Tesla and FSD owner, and L3 on highways (Navigate on Autopilot) today would be very useful to me. It would provide a much sought after feature that would increase safety and provide opportunities for productivity and stress relief on long trips/commutes. Autosteer on City Streets, even if it could be brought to L3 someday (and I have serious doubts), has absolutely no use for me at all. If I am driving 5 min across town on surface streets, I will just drive. It's when I have to do 20+ minutes on the interstate that I want ADAS features.
Of course, if you are still hoping for L5 "robotaxi" in current production Teslas, then you are delusional and there is no debating the point with you.
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
I am reposting this from another thread because it makes me curious if we are getting a new front camera system, I was told by a tech at tesla I probably would due to GPS issues and he made some weird comment, basically when they get a fsdb car, it is handled differently.
Tesla tech notes ...Concern: Customer states: Visual Display & Navigation - Navigation has been freezing lately for the last week and sometimes taking 20 to 30 miles of driving to get corrected. Car notes the GPS antenna is having connectivity problems Technician Verified concern, Newest camera revision is not in stock. Removed camera and added interference tape as a remedy. Test drove and GPS pointer is working properly at this time.
So are they going to be giving us all new cameras??? I also noticed it was really humid inside my front facing cameras... so they took that out also.
I think the camera and GPS are connected and run the gps
Yes, just left service today. They did a temporary fix but had to order a part. Apparently they had to take the cabin camera out and put some material in there to help GPS. This is a known problem by them. Also they all acted like they haven't heard about the USB and sentry cam issues telling us to take out the USB and replace. They said they will address that when the part that fixes the GPS comes in...
Tesla tech notes ...Concern: Customer states: Visual Display & Navigation - Navigation has been freezing lately for the last week and sometimes taking 20 to 30 miles of driving to get corrected. Car notes the GPS antenna is having connectivity problems Technician Verified concern, Newest camera revision is not in stock. Removed camera and added interference tape as a remedy. Test drove and GPS pointer is working properly at this time.
So are they going to be giving us all new cameras??? I also noticed it was really humid inside my front facing cameras... so they took that out also.
I think the camera and GPS are connected and run the gps
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wknickless
Member
It already does that. One of my routes home from work requires a U-turn. FSD beeps and says it cannot complete the maneuver.
Tesla has shown no interest in an L3 system. If that's your hope, and do not think that Tesla can achieve at least L4 with your car, then you will never be happy.
BTW, Cadillac does not have an L3 system. Their system requires driver attention, just like Tesla. And although Mercedes does have an L3 system, which does not require driver attention, at this time their system system only works in low speed traffic jams.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Surprising no one caught this, this is a typo and it should have read 300m range (10 seconds at 67mph). Though seems like 400m would be a very good range that would be good to have long term; only 7.5 seconds at 90mph.
Anyway I have a much higher opinion of the Autopilot team here; I am confident they do not treat 10 second gaps as acceptable. Plus they have been known to go on gaps closer to 5 seconds.
Back to the release:
I was thinking it would be great if Tesla would secretly compile an “attention score” for all FSD Beta users, and roll out the new releases first to those with the best attention scores (fewest eyes on road and “apply slight turning force”reminders). Rather than the influencers…. (And of course there would be a minimum mileage requirement, etc - just looking for ways to get the very safest rollouts for Tesla as capabilities rapidly improve and the risks go up.)
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yeah but that wasn’t what I was talking about here, of course. Hopefully they can expand this feature to cover blind turns (not Chuck’s!) etc. No reason to poke dangerously into traffic in FSD Beta - it is better to let the human do that.
I agree, I don't see any advantage for Tesla and the driver to have an official L3 system (Maybe less nagging for the driver?). Also, people talk a lot about L5, but it's like L3, not a lot of advantages to be L5 vs L4. Even the steering wheel seems to be optional in L4. As long as there is no economical advantage to be at a higher level it's better for the compagnie to be officially at a lower level for responsibility and flexibility but give the user all the features of higher level.
Tesla may have shown no interest but with Tesla's method of developing from L2 we can't get to L4 without first achieving L3. I bet in a year we will have L3 on the highway and be getting close to L3 on city streets. Or maybe L3 there too. I have always doubted that we have the hardware to EVER reach L4/L5. I'll be tickled pink with a SOLID L3 system for city and highway driving.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
There’s a huge advantage. With Level 3 you can read a book or watch a movie and you do not have to pay attention to the road. You just have to take over (with some reasonable amount of time to do so) if the system requests it.
This is a huge difference vs. L2 and it is why it appeals to commuters - they could work while they drive to the office. There would literally be no nagging for the driver (presumably the system would require that you be in the driver seat and would nag if you weren’t, or if your head were not visible, etc.).
....also there is NO NAG or driver monitoring in an L3 system. It can warn you that you will need to take over driving, but it must allow you a reasonable time (though not defined).
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yes I added a last sentence to my post. Realistically, the system will make sure the driver is in the driver seat. The Mercedes system is kind of picky about this but they are being conservative. Long term presumably these systems will just look for any sign of life in the driver’s seat and leave it at that.
It’s odd that the post above was provided with the table showing the massive advantage of L3…
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