FSD Beta 10.69

[Dan D.]

Example:
I want FSD to take my elderly parent to the doctor. Safely without affecting the safety of other cars. Nothing more nothing less. I also know if I asked 5 different friends to drive my parent to the doctor they would all drive very differently. Would I care, no.
Many of the video "mistake" comments just aren't important to this goal even if they are mistakes which isn't clear. You're gotten to far down into the weeds and FSD will likely never meet your expectations. Don't let perfect (whatever that actually is) be the enemy of good.

I'll presume that your example is something you'd like FSD to do one day in the future, not that you are suggesting FSD Beta should actually be used for this today. Is that right?

Reason I ask is for something I'll call comfort creep. We have a lot of new bike lanes in Vancouver, which is a busy and messy city of car/bike/pedestrian interactions. The new bike lanes are wonderful in theory, but do encourage otherwise scared cyclists to feel 'comfortable' riding near traffic in situations they mightn't have done before, and that's not always a good thing. If FSD is reasonably good, it might encourage otherwise scared or less-skilled drivers to head into traffic situations where they are over their head, but FSD dumps out at the worst time. Just something to consider being a potential side-effect of a "good but not great" Level 2 driver assist system. I don't personally think FSD Beta is even at a "good" stage yet, it has too many sudden flaws.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

are using a S3XY button to simulate a scroll

I looked at SEXY buttons a while ago and it looks like it can emulate Autopilot hands on, so they are not emulating a scroll wheel. AFAIK.

I’m sure Tesla could defeat it too, if they wished (seems that they probably have analog torque reading but no idea) but I think having to press a button periodically (obviously automatic occasional presses could be programmed as well to really bypass things) is still meeting the spirit of the rule.

As you know I think hands should be on at all times though. But that is neither here nor there.

 

[Edtreo]

FYI, openpilot drives hands free.

 

[Dan D.]

I looked at SEXY buttons a while ago and it looks like it can emulate Autopilot hands on, so they are not emulating a scroll wheel. AFAIK.

I’m sure Tesla could defeat it too, if they wished (seems that they probably have analog torque reading but no idea) but I think having to press a button periodically (obviously automatic occasional presses could be programmed as well to really bypass things) is still meeting the spirit of the rule.

As you know I think hands should be on at all times though. But that is neither here nor there.

S3XY buttons can emulate many things including volume up/down. If you're sitting back, NOT touching the wheel and just pressing the S3XY button you've put nowhere near the wheel, (or worse if they could be automated, not sure if that's a thing yet), then you're not really meeting the spirit of the rule.

I guess Tesla figured if you are manipulating the scroll wheel then your hands are kind of near the steering wheel. But a remote S3XY button means you don't have to have your hands near the steering wheel again nor really having to pay attention, so we're back to hands-off and inattentive being possible.

I'm sure someone is working on a random-torque defeat device too. The cycle continues.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

So, can I have 10.69.2.3 back, or even 10.69.2.4? The current iteration of slop is pretty bad. I’ve got around 500miles on 10.69.3.1 and the regressions outweigh any improvements imo.

 

[JulienW]

So, can I have 10.69.2.3 back, or even 10.69.2.4? The current iteration of slop is pretty bad. I’ve got around 500miles on 10.69.3.1 and the regressions outweigh any improvements imo.

I'm with you and SURE hope that v11 isn't just 69.3.x with highway stack "slapped" on top. We need a 69.4.x that gets back to or actually surpasses 69.2.4. To me 69.2.4 was some "good stuff" and 69.3.1 seems like we are backing up to some early 10.x builds.

 

[Pdubs]

Wonder if there was some weird server issue that might’ve caused it. There was no warning or anything prior to the yelling, beeping, and the large grab the yoke and steer manually message…. I wonder if any sort of server transition to v11 could’ve messed with the matrix

Exactly. I’ve never seen it before. Just an instant decent into madness. (Choosing my words carefully in order to avoid quotes from the Dead n such, *he says lookin at @PACEMD)

 

[Pdubs]

Well something, that matrix is seriously altered. Just strikes, without warning, and no known cause from my experience with previous 56k miles of FSD/NOA. I had one strike previously, I've had over 20 since the update. FSDb suspended until the next update. I get on the interstate, drive as I have always with NOA, watch the screen, 8-12 miles and bam, a strike that cannot be corrected. I can still use NOA it just doesn't work. Coming home on Tuesday I had to stop 9 times to reset.

That’s probably more dedicated than me, but j may have done the same depending on the mood

 

[Pdubs]

Just trying to help, and providing info on what we know. My point is that we haven’t seen documented evidence of this type of failure.

To me it sounds like a defeat device is in use, or the torque sensing or camera hardware is defective or in a bad state. (But I would expect some warnings of some form on the screen prior to the strike if it were this, I guess.)

This is what is called “trying to figure out what is wrong.”

And it would certainly be helpful to see what is happening exactly, to that end. Or get a detailed description.

I’ve never used anything. No water bottles. No Velcro weights. Always on point.

 

[Pdubs]

There is nothing wrong with my cameras, I drove to work 150 miles with NOA functioning as always, updated the software, and driving home was not the same. You can try to dismiss this all you want, but it's not a sudden breakdown of equipment and me not driving correctly. This is precisely why I was hesitant to post this.....It is in fact a thing.

No. You’re good Doc. Your post sounds like what’s happened to me and @Ramphex too

 

[Pdubs]

But there is a reason: they are using a wheel weight to try to defeat the hands on the wheel requirement.

No

 

[2101Guy]

Wrong. There is a hands on the wheel requirement.

No on teslas current official FSD video on teslas website.

Would you like me to post the link?

 

[aronth5]

I'll presume that your example is something you'd like FSD to do one day in the future, not that you are suggesting FSD Beta should actually be used for this today. Is that right?

Correct, definitely a future.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

I'm with you and SURE hope that v11 isn't just 69.3.x with highway stack "slapped" on top. We need a 69.4.x that gets back to or actually surpasses 69.2.4. To me 69.2.4 was some "good stuff" and 69.3.1 seems like we are backing up to some early 10.x builds.

100%. Actually, I thought 10.69.2.3 was better than .2.4, but .2.4 was way better than what we have now.

 

[jebinc]

So, can I have 10.69.2.3 back, or even 10.69.2.4? The current iteration of slop is pretty bad. I’ve got around 500miles on 10.69.3.1 and the regressions outweigh any improvements imo.

Lovin’ those wide turns touching/crossing the centerline, flashing green lights, random turn signals, are you?

Got “WKS” (White Knuckle Syndrome)? If yes, then Elon can proclaim, “Feature Complete”!
@WilliamG

 

[2101Guy]

Note to self: order S3XY buttons later today

 

[sleepydoc]

Well, it's happened multiple times for me, consistently and constantly on this version of FSDb, I'll relate the story in detail a bit later, no time just now. Never happened before like this without warning, just a sudden red screen out of the blue, as it were, then flashing blue twice for fractions of a second after the red screen, followed by an immediate strike, with no chance at all for corrections, and where I have to stop the car to reset. Driving interstate with NOA but new version of FSDb, 69.3.1, 2022.36.20. Driving exactly the same with NOA as most of my 50k-plus miles of interstate commute. I'm not even close to alone on this. It is indeed a thing. And I'm not a noted FSD complainer, I only paid 6k and have low expectations. I only need/want it to drive me back and forth to work, on the interstate, something it's always done well, until now. Not the only thing that sucks out loud with this update. Later. And video? Sorry but I don't have a mounted cab video. The inherent car videos aren't going to show a thing.

Pretty much my story, too, but Alan won’t believe it without video. I’m waiting for it to happen to him.

I paid $10k for FSD. do I get to have higher expectations than you?

 

[xG35]

This thread is very interesting. 3.1 in Toronto has been great progress. I literally drive less than 5% of the time in most occasions.

Maybe it is user preferences of driving style, different configuration between regions or somehow fsd just don’t work in certain areas. But 3.1 is chauffeur like here.

 

[PACEMD]

Pretty much my story, too, but Alan won’t believe it without video. I’m waiting for it to happen to him.

I paid $10k for FSD. do I get to have higher expectations than you?

Yes. Yes, you do. The going rate is one expectation per $1000. I have 6, you have 10, and current buyers get 15. That would piss me off........

 

[PACEMD]

A human cannot apply constant torque. It is easy for the car to distinguish between them.

So you or no one else has ever gotten a warning when driving with a hand on the wheel? A warning requiring an alteration of the torque. That has happened to every single one of us. A human can in fact apply constant torque. I do it all the time, my jokes and taunts about nag cheaters notwithstanding. Maybe not if afflicted with Parkinson's disease or other limitations but it most certainly can and is done with the hand. For a time. What is the expectation of that time is the question. Tesla has now decided 10 minuntes or so is the limit for an average human to apply constant torque by hand? Anything more is an assumption of cheating. What is the world's time record for applying constant torque by hand using Tesla FSDb? What is the average? How often should that torque be varied to assure someone is paying attention? There is no answer to that and in fact the very nature of the question is absurd. Shaking a hand and paying attention are very different things and do not correlate with safe driving. Just as camera-monitored eye movements have a very poor, if any, relation to meaningful attention. Unless the eyes are totally closed perhaps. The fact is the software assumptions about the nature of applied torque have changed with 69.3.1. No worries, just let us know the rules. And when the fundamental nature of the game involving warnings changes, please, give us a hint at least. Making a software assumption that you are not playing by some rather inconsistent and questionably designed rules so screw you is a bit........well, bad manners.......to say the least........