FSD Beta v11.x

FSDtester#1 · Apr 2, 2023

AlanSubie4Life said:
I think it is unreasonable to expect good behavior here. It’s totally unsupported to stop for unknown objects in the road. (In general it should be expected to hit them.) This looks like a panic stop in confusion to me, rather than the normal terrible stopping behavior.

The stopping is bad, but I don’t think this is a great example. I guess it is a emmogood example of what happens if it is confused.

But first it seems like the 90% fix to the problem is to fix the situations where it is not confused and see and react to lights in time and slow down like a normal human rather than creating a jerkfest of brake taps.

I think I missed this link…I see some Sun n Fun (did not watch) and then the gate videos.

Was the hemorrhoid cream needed because of beta? If so, send EM the bill...

jebinc · Apr 2, 2023

FSDtester#1 said:
Was the hemorrhoid cream needed because of beta? If so, send EM the bill...

He will send you Charlatan cream!

FSDtester#1 · Apr 2, 2023

aronth5 said:
Sorry to hear that. I'm just glad it's not junk for me.
V11.3.3 is the first update I've had in since October of 2021 that I've found was a signifiable improvement.
Highway is great and city/streets are improved although they still need a lot of work.

Exactly my point, @aronth5 is someone I trust. Why are both of us happy and some others not? He and I have the same beta drive time, like the rest of the OG's.
Our experiences should be more in line with each other. There is an outside factor for different experiences... mapping, cameras, calibration, etc. Any other guesses?

jebinc · Apr 2, 2023

FSDtester#1 said:
Exactly my point, @aronth5 is someone I trust. Why are both of us happy and some others not? He and I have the same beta drive time, like the rest of the OG's.
Our experiences should be more in line with each other. There is an outside factor for different experiences... mapping, cameras, calibration, etc. Any other guesses?

Individual tolerance level for its behavior; good, bad and ugly. Perspective. Differing expectations, etc.

aronth5 · Apr 2, 2023

Ramphex said:
Did you watch my videos from my trip getting the hemorrhoid cream from the CVS earlier? How do you guys not get annoyed by that braking behavior?

jebinc said:
Individual tolerance level for its behavior; good, bad and ugly. Perspective. Differing expectations, etc.

And certainly the roads we drive have a direct bearing. The more urban and old city road layouts, the worse the drive.
For those who consider FSD junk just curious how you rank highway driving since highways are much simpler.
And IMO robotaxi is a long way off.

SSDTester#1 · Apr 2, 2023

jebinc said:
Same series, but different character…. FSDb is like the “bitch-Stewie” version of what FSDb should be. Get it?!

Love that episode!

AlanSubie4Life said:
I think it is unreasonable to expect good behavior here. It’s totally unsupported to stop for unknown objects in the road. (In general it should be expected to hit them.) This looks like a panic stop in confusion to me, rather than the normal terrible stopping behavior.

The stopping is bad, but I don’t think this is a great example. I guess it is a good example of what happens if it is confused.

But first it seems like the 90% fix to the problem is to fix the situations where it is not confused and RELIABLY see and react to lights in time and slow down like a normal human rather than creating a jerkfest of brake taps. In the meantime I am fine with it smoothly slowing down and running into gates with unclear location.

I think I missed this link…I see some Sun n Fun (did not watch) and then the gate videos.

It's the same exact behavior on public roads when stopping behind vehicles at a red light. This is just easier to recreate without anyone around and to avoid playing with a camera in traffic. It does the same thing in traffic, starts slowing down normally, then slams the brakes, then slowly comes to a stop. THIS is one of the big reasons I have been dogging the beta and not using it as much.

aronth5 said:
Sorry to hear that. I'm just glad it's not junk for me.
V11.3.3 is the first update I've had in since October of 2021 that I've found was a signifiable improvement.
Highway is great and city/streets are improved although they still need a lot of work.

I have not tried highway yet, MAYBE that's all v11 was about, bringing the code to the highways only, and the rest of it is the same stale 10.69 garbage.

Joboo7777 · Apr 2, 2023

FSDtester#1 said:
The one thing I noticed which is completely opposite to your drives, is when it commits now, it frigging takes off. Almost too fast. How can our cars be so different.. curious, as I trust your observations.

Funny you say that. My car has this Jekyll & Hyde persona. Sometimes it’s a jack rabbit from the go, sometimes it slow rolls the startup. I can’t figure out what triggers each scenario to occur.

EVNow · Apr 2, 2023

Ramphex said:
So here's my first drive on v11.3.4 impression.
…
Overall opinion, agreed with @jebinc it's still junk.

Told you

SSDTester#1 · Apr 2, 2023

EVNow said:
Told you

It'll be junk until the braking is fixed. Phantom braking and the spill your coffee braking. I have been complaining about both for many months now, used to always hit the camera button for this slam-the-brakes nonsense and it's yet to be resolved.

jebinc · Apr 2, 2023

aronth5 said:
And certainly the roads we drive have a direct bearing. The more urban and old city road layouts, the worse the drive.
For those who consider FSD junk just curious how you rank highway driving since highways are much simpler.
And IMO robotaxi is a long way off.

Save for on and off ramps, decent/acceptable/not junk.

jebinc · Apr 2, 2023

Ramphex said:
It'll be junk until the braking is fixed. Phantom braking and the spill your coffee braking. I have been complaining about both for many months now, used to always hit the camera button for this slam-the-brakes nonsense and it's yet to be resolved.

To rid yourself of anger when this happens, just think of and shout out “bitch-FSDb” every time it happens. Guaranteed to feel better!

AlanSubie4Life · Apr 2, 2023

Ramphex said:
It does the same thing in traffic, starts slowing down normally, then slams the brakes, then slowly comes to a stop. THIS is one of the big reasons I have been dogging the beta and not using it as much.

It does this to some extent, but not the extent indicated in your video in most cases. You can go through and compare jerk and deceleration frame by frame to prove this if you want. 13mph to 2mph in less than a second as in your video is really abrupt - 0.5g. That is much worse than the typical horrible braking.

Most certainly particularly on downhills, it is quite bad. But not that bad. 0.2-0.3g is more typical, with a lot of variation in the g forces which makes it even worse. Coffee will stay in a cup (if it is not to the brim) just fine at 0.2g if the onset is smooth.

gsmith123 · Apr 2, 2023

Ramphex said:
bringing the code to the highways only, and the rest of it is the same stale 10.69 garbage.

There are definitely changes beyond highways. For me it’s been a bit of a 2 steps forward, 1 step back, kind of release but I have found 2-3 situations where lane positioning or lane detection issues have been resolved

EVNow · Apr 2, 2023

Ramphex said:
It'll be junk until the braking is fixed. Phantom braking and the spill your coffee braking. I have been complaining about both for many months now, used to always hit the camera button for this slam-the-brakes nonsense and it's yet to be resolved.

I don’t get that … so, can’t comment. I do get harsh braking once in a while, not a deal breaker for me.

But in general my older comments stand … people who already use FSD will derive improved value over time and others will keep waiting. FSD is still in its infancy with 1 disengagement every 10 miles. Some of you will only like it when it’s polished and approaching 1 in 100 miles of disengagement rate ( where NOA is at now). That’s fine.

SSDTester#1 · Apr 2, 2023

AlanSubie4Life said:
It does this to some extent, but not the extent indicated in your video in most cases. You can go through and compare jerk and deceleration frame by frame to prove this if you want. 13mph to 2mph in less than a second as in your video is really abrupt - 0.5g. That is much worse than the typical horrible braking.

Most certainly particularly on downhills, it is quite bad. But not that bad.

I don't know why you think that my experience is the same as yours. I have nothing to gain from dogging the FSD, I spent $10k on it and I WANT it to work. But it doesn't. Not for me. You think my experience must be the same as yours, even though we're not in the same state and don't have the same car. I'm showing you a clear video of what my experiences are. Do you want to fly out here and try it yourself? Lol.

Edit: there's a reason I don't use FSD much, and it's not because of having to give it more go-pedal every now and then or an occasional bad lane selection. Look through my posts if you care to see how far back my extreme braking complaints go.

aronth5 · Apr 2, 2023

Ramphex said:
It'll be junk until the braking is fixed. Phantom braking and the spill your coffee braking. I have been complaining about both for many months now, used to always hit the camera button for this slam-the-brakes nonsense and it's yet to be resolved.

Interesting since I've only gotten this once in the last week and not even close to spill your coffee. Any phantom braking I've gotten is 2-3 mph at most and none on the highway. And we know highways were the focus for V11 which seems to be consistent with the general impresson by most users whether here, reddit, YouTube or Twitter.

AlanSubie4Life · Apr 2, 2023

Ramphex said:
car. I'm showing you a clear video of what my experiences are. Do you want to fly out here and try it yourself? Lol.

I 100% think my car would jam on the brakes like that in that scenario. It would be extremely bad. Your video is exactly what I would expect.

I 100% believe you have horrible jerky braking in other scenarios too. And that it is very common and not unusual. Just because it is much less bad than 0.5g typically does not make it ok or even close to ok.

That is what I keep saying, after all. I am one of the major jerk complainers around here.

FSDtester#1 · Apr 2, 2023

Joboo7777 said:
Funny you say that. My car has this Jekyll & Hyde persona. Sometimes it’s a jack rabbit from the go, sometimes it slow rolls the startup. I can’t figure out what triggers each scenario to occur.

Mine always was slow to commit after a right or left turn, until this version.
It goes fast now

SSDTester#1 · Apr 2, 2023

aronth5 said:
Interesting since I've only gotten this once in the last week and not even close to spill your coffee. Any phantom braking I've gotten is 2-3 mph at most and none on the highway. And we know highways were the focus for V11 which seems to be consistent with the general impresson by most users whether here, reddit, YouTube or Twitter.

I have not tried it on the highways yet. Phantom braking is annoying but not the worst thing ever. The slam on the brakes, as shown in my video, is extremely annoying and makes me not want to use the FSD. I wish there was a section of stats how many miles driven manually and how many with FSD engaged in the car.

tivoboy · Apr 2, 2023

FSDtester#1 said:
The voice prompt comes up every time I manually disengage at the end of the route.
Nothing bad happened.. what do you say? "We good peeps, I turned it off because I am parked now"

You can just let it time out after ~ 10 secs

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