FSD Beta v11.x

mtndrew1 · Apr 13, 2023

kabin said:
V11.3.6 failed to safely negotiate an UPL with oncoming 45mph+ traffic. It was on course for a collision prior to disengagement. I was the only vehicle in the left turn lane so the view was wide open. Very odd results given it was wide open after the oncoming car. V11.3.6 path decision making and timing seems off the mark.

I had two similar events yesterday. An unprotected four way intersection had a car from my right turning left on the yellow.

My car pulled right into the path of that car completing its turn. Of course I slammed on the brakes but what an amateur screwup this far along in development.

kabin · Apr 13, 2023

mtndrew1 said:
Edit: the path planner has become…bizarre. See attached.

View attachment 928006

Yikes, It's a path reality distortion field. No way that could ever be a viable path.

Gotta hope the A team isn't working HW4 and the leftovers working HW3 bug fixes.

mtndrew1 · Apr 13, 2023

kabin said:
Yikes, It's a path reality distortion field. No way that could ever be a viable path.

Gotta hope the A team isn't working HW4 and the leftovers working HW3 bug fixes.

Not only was it not viable, my car kept trying to squeeze between the cars ahead and nearly bumped one. I must have disengaged and reengaged a dozen times and it kept doing the same thing. (I recorded this as one disengagement in my tracking).

Matias · Apr 13, 2023

mtndrew1 said:
I’ve tested nearly every release since September of 2021 and just did my seven-segment test route on 11.3.6. You can see the results at the link below.

Essentially no improvement over prior versions. There’s a few things it does better but it is no more useful than it has been in the past (aka not at all). As I do with every hyped release I thought “maybe this is finally it!” It is not.

Test Route Tracking

Edit: the path planner has become…bizarre. See attached.

View attachment 928006

So in 1.5 years your interventions in the same route have gone from 13 to 22. Do we ever achieve any useful L2 with the current hardware?

Matias · Apr 13, 2023

mtndrew1 said:
Edit: the path planner has become…bizarre. See attached.

View attachment 928006

You need this

JB47394 · Apr 13, 2023

Matias said:
Do we ever achieve any useful L2 with the current hardware?

I don't believe it's a hardware problem. The car can see all the stuff that it shows in the planner display. It will even show good paths to navigate it. It is the control software that's rubbish and, perhaps ironically, that's the part that uses the most established technology - standard logic coding. It's stuff like zipper merges, lane selection, and some kind of internal battle between safety and just making a turn at a stop sign. It is my hope that switching to neural nets for the control software will be the breakthrough that the team needs.

mtndrew1 · Apr 13, 2023

Matias said:
So in 1.5 years your interventions in the same route have gone from 13 to 22. Do we ever achieve any useful L2 with the current hardware?

Of course there are a ton of variables in there but, that’s right, there has been no meaningful progress towards FSD being useful on my test route over the last year and a half.

FSDb remains a clunky mess in all but the most basic of routes and even on those it’s not great.

Like a fool I fell for the whole thing, hook, line and sinker.

Joboo7777 · Apr 13, 2023

I’ve seen a few posts regarding map updates. How often do these occur? I live in the DFW area and new roads are constantly being developed and/or existing roads expanded with multiple turning lanes, etc. I’m fairly new so I’m not quite sure the importance these updates and their impact on FSDb. Any insight you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Dennisis · Apr 13, 2023

mtndrew1 said:
Like a fool I fell for the whole thing, hook, line and sinker.

You have plenty of company! But I've seen progress for sure as have others. A good deal of variability amongst users and it's given me plenty to scratch my head about. If like me you've purchased, not rented, FSB best we can do is keep sharing our experiences with Tesla and each other and press on. Unfortunately progress is painfully slow but I think we're getting close to a tipping point where most will feel OK going forward.

mtndrew1 · Apr 13, 2023

Joboo7777 said:
I’ve seen a few posts regarding map updates. How often do these occur? I live in the DFW area and new roads are constantly being developed and/or existing roads expanded with multiple turning lanes, etc. I’m fairly new so I’m not quite sure the importance these updates and their impact on FSDb. Any insight you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

They happen once or twice a year. I’ve had them fix (and break!) routing but I’ve never had them result in improvements to my FSDb experience.

fasteddie7 · Apr 13, 2023

I tried searching for the answer but I don't know that I'm wording my search correctly. I just took delivery of a model s with FSD but the software is 2023.2.301 and I don't have FSD or the park assist option (no uss hw4) for those that have the latest FSD update, is the uss-less park assist part of it?

JHCCAZ · Apr 13, 2023

JB47394 said:
I don't believe it's a hardware problem. The car can see all the stuff that it shows in the planner display. It will even show good paths to navigate it. It is the control software that's rubbish and, perhaps ironically, that's the part that uses the most established technology - standard logic coding. It's stuff like zipper merges, lane selection, and some kind of internal battle between safety and just making a turn at a stop sign. It is my hope that switching to neural nets for the control software will be the breakthrough that the team needs.

My interpretation is that they are a step farther along, i.e. they have indeed begun the process of replacing hand-coded control with neural nets, and this is likely causing a large set of regressions that will need to be worked out.

I say this based on Elon's reported tweets on the topic, combined with the behavioral regressions that everyone is talking about.

If true, then the good news is that they are installing the architectural changes that (they expect) we'll get them past the current foibles (past the "local maximum" limitation as Elon likes to put it) and on to greater human-like performance of the planner. I would also assume that the training sets are different and that the team is compiling, refining and learning what training data is most effective in this new phase.

Like replacing an experienced but mediocre employee with a smarter rookie kid. Everyone can see he's got more potential but he's got a lot to learn...

mtndrew1 · Apr 13, 2023

fasteddie7 said:
I tried searching for the answer but I don't know that I'm wording my search correctly. I just took delivery of a model s with FSD but the software is 2023.2.301 and I don't have FSD or the park assist option (no uss hw4) for those that have the latest FSD update, is the uss-less park assist part of it?

FSDb kind of “bolts on” to firmware versions and it’s still bolted to an old 2022 build.

For a little while there was FSD build parity with the rest of the fleet but mostly FSDb cars are several months behind everyone else.

Since you’re on a 2023 firmware build and Tesla doesn’t go backwards you’ll have to wait for FSDb to be bolted to a newer version of the core firmware before you can use it.

AlanSubie4Life · Apr 13, 2023

JHCCAZ said:
and on to greater human-like performance of the planner.

Not clear to me that this would be the natural result. There is not really anything human-like about it (in spite of the weird “neural nets” anthropomorphic term).

However after an additional couple years of work regardless of the specific strategy I would expect continued improvement.

However, by then HW3 will be deprecated, presumably. I guess we’ll see what fits.

Scott Chapman · Apr 13, 2023

has anyone else had any luck figuring out the problem where the AP steering wheel flashes on/off making it difficult to engage FSDb all together?
Just wondering if maybe it is related to cameras being clean, or if anyone contacted service?

JHCCAZ · Apr 13, 2023

mtndrew1 said:
FSDb kind of “bolts on” to firmware versions and it’s still bolted to an old 2022 build.

For a little while there was FSD build parity with the rest of the fleet but mostly FSDb cars are several months behind everyone else.

Since you’re on a 2023 firmware build and Tesla doesn’t go backwards you’ll have to wait for FSDb to be bolted to a newer version of the core firmware before you can use it.

The question is, could they not create a software socket for the FSDb "bolt on" that lets them do thorough FSD pre-release regression testing to that module, and then attach it to more production-current UI and hardware control modules?

I've been hoping for this, but the principles of proper regression testing make it difficult, especially when the new FSDb build includes changes to these other major platforms - like the new menu and pop-up controls associated with the latest v11 changes.

They would need to clear boundaries between modules, but too much of that formality would also impede progress and dampen the culture of cross-functional agility. It's difficult when new architectural ideas are constantly coming out of the Autopilot team, and you don't want to squelch that just because the FSDb users are clamoring for Auto Steering Wheel Heat.

AlanSubie4Life · Apr 13, 2023

Scott Chapman said:
has anyone else had any luck figuring out the problem where the AP steering wheel flashes on/off making it difficult to engage FSDb all together?
Just wondering if maybe it is related to cameras being clean, or if anyone contacted service?

Haven’t had any notable problems. Might be disabled (unable to engage) more often, but not in any place I cared. Have never had an issue engaging FSD with v11 (of course it has failed to engage many times - but that is normal and not an issue - you just wait for an appropriate engagement time, ease off the accelerator, etc. - then go for it!).

Haven’t washed my car in months.

kabin · Apr 13, 2023

Scott Chapman said:
has anyone else had any luck figuring out the problem where the AP steering wheel flashes on/off making it difficult to engage FSDb all together?
Just wondering if maybe it is related to cameras being clean, or if anyone contacted service?

Chuck Cook has a video of it happening when driving too close to the right side road edge. I never experienced it before but did yesterday on 3.6 and I was in the right most lane. I wouldn't be surprised if there were other conditions that trigger it.

Knightshade · Apr 13, 2023

mtndrew1 said:
They happen once or twice a year. I’ve had them fix (and break!) routing but I’ve never had them result in improvements to my FSDb experience.

The "base" maps update that rarely... but there's apparently real-time route updates to them- see this thread from green-

https://twitter.com/x/status/1641450299285209088

fasteddie7 · Apr 13, 2023

mtndrew1 said:
FSDb kind of “bolts on” to firmware versions and it’s still bolted to an old 2022 build.

For a little while there was FSD build parity with the rest of the fleet but mostly FSDb cars are several months behind everyone else.

Since you’re on a 2023 firmware build and Tesla doesn’t go backwards you’ll have to wait for FSDb to be bolted to a newer version of the core firmware before you can use it.

Thank you for the clarification! So what you’re saying is I’ll likely get the standard updates for park assist/other features and one day FSD will have a version that connects to those versions and then I’ll get it, and in the meantime enjoy my $15k stop light and stop sign add on.

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