FSD Beta v11.x

JulienW · Apr 15, 2023

Can anyone explain this beyond crazy a$$ behavior? It should be going straight (Red Line) but FSD Beta first stops in the road and then turns left and makes this dumb a$$ loop around an Island (Blue Line). It does this every time at this Island (about 3 or more times a week). Oddly I was obtusely thinking Beta was confusing the Island with a traffic Roundabout. However I finely had an epiphany (duh) moment

and realized that it is going in the wrong direction to confuse as a Roundabout. So what the hell is it doing?

LowlyOilBurner · Apr 15, 2023

JulienW said:
Can anyone explain this beyond crazy a$$ behavior? It should be going straight (Red Line) but FSD Beta first stops in the road and then turns left and makes this dumb a$$ loop around an Island (Blue Line). It does this every time at this Island (about 3 or more times a week). Oddly I was obtusely thinking Beta was confusing the Island with a traffic Roundabout. However I finely had an epiphany (duh) moment and realized that it is going in the wrong direction to confuse as a Roundabout. So what the hell is it doing?

View attachment 928595

I have one of these such islands in a very rural area. Back on 10.69.X it actually handled it correctly. Prior to 10.69, it did exactly what you described. I have yet to try it on 11.3.6, but I bet it will fail.

Robotpedlr · Apr 15, 2023

I agree with the comments about the city streets still needing a lot of work… however, I am very happy with the Hwy FSDb behavior over my 350 mile trip this week… no issues, limited lane changes (on default w/o activating MLC). NOA used to change lines like it got paid extra for each change… 11.3.6 seems to be doing it only when it should…

AlanSubie4Life · Apr 15, 2023

JulienW said:
So what the hell is it doing?

Scenic route. Seems mostly to be a legal and valid route.

Dennisis · Apr 15, 2023

JHCCAZ said:
westbound Skyline between Campbell and the left turn bay for westbound Orange Grove

Same thing happened to me traveling South on Sabino Canyon to a left at Tanque Verde. 3 left turn lanes at that intersection and I'm in the correct lane, car shows it plans to turn left as planned, then inexplicably signals to move to the right and proceed straight through the intersection at the last minute. Would be interesting to know how something like this made it through even limited testing as it seems a common failure.

SidetrackedSue · Apr 15, 2023

JulienW said:
Can anyone explain this beyond crazy a$$ behavior?

Pretending to be a confused, nervous, driver: I wonder if it can see the road ahead or does the hill partially obscure it and it doesn't interpret that space a road but thinks it is just an open parking area? It sees the yield sign close by and decides that's where the intersection is so proceeds there.

Obviously, if it was working from both vision and maps, it would have the full picture of how the roads intersect but it is obvious it isn't following the mapping here.

PACEMD · Apr 15, 2023

Ramphex said:
Have yet to drive on Junk

You shouldn't even be doing junk but driving like that? Not safe........

Dennisis · Apr 15, 2023

JHCCAZ said:
there is certainly some logic encoded that doesn't like to change lanes through intersections,

My car makes lane changes in intersections regularly, go figure.

kabin · Apr 15, 2023

Dennisis said:
My car makes lane changes in intersections regularly, go figure.

Obviously unsafe as well as illegal in 48 states plus DC. Maybe it'll get added to the next NHTSA recall.

PACEMD · Apr 15, 2023

kabin said:
Obviously unsafe as well as illegal in 48 states plus DC. Maybe it'll get added to the next NHTSA recall.

When I get stopped for driving like that I just have them send the ticket directly to Tesla........

EVNow · Apr 15, 2023

Had a very nice round trip yesterday. 30+ minutes each way - with no disengagements (except, see below), highway + city.

I'm pleasantly surprised that they waited to release this until they got freeway FSD to perform on par with NOA.

Close to home, FSD had to make a free right turn but stopped in the middle for an oncoming car. Disengaged to push forward (I guess could have just pumped the accelerator). FSD does this once in a while - gets in the path of oncoming cars and stops - it has done it a couple of times now within a round about too.

BTW, here is YT video of a guy's commute from Seattle to his work. Tell him FSDb is "junk"

Dennisis · Apr 15, 2023

Had another strange incident yesterday. Came to a stop light very nicely at a major intersection, planned to go through when the light changed. However, after coming to a stop crept up over the crosswalk and then started to proceed into the intersection despite the red light and steady cross traffic. That's a first for me, no idea the logic at work...

JB47394 · Apr 15, 2023

EVNow said:
BTW, here is YT video of a guy's commute from Seattle to his work. Tell him FSDb is "junk"

I've stopped reading posts from people who are constantly raving about how amazing it is or are constantly ranting about what junk it is. It's a product with a mixed bag of experiences, and people who recognize that get my attention. That YouTube drive demonstrated FSDb's real strength, which is lane keeping in even the most demanding circumstances. Its excessive caution is perhaps the source of its greatest weakness. I hope it won't take HW4 to get it to be confident enough in its decision-making to achieve a useful level of self-driving. Highways are pretty much there because that's primarily lane keeping.

I liked the hand gestures to encourage the car to change lanes or move forward and so on.

When we're in robotaxis and there are no controls, perhaps we'll be able to use gestures to adjust the car's behavior. Italians would drive it nuts.

Tronguy · Apr 15, 2023

AlanSubie4Life said:
I’d never want to turn it off. It’s too much fun getting jerked around, and plus it is natural curiosity for me to get real-world experience of the fragility of the neural net approach to AI. We have a long long way to go on AI it seems! Also it’s a window into the difficulty of a programmatic approach to solving the issue. Just fun to see how it does totally different things with very small changes in the inputs. I absolutely cannot predict what jerky path it is going to take on my ULT on any given day. It is so different each time, even with no traffic and similar conditions. Amazing.
Also keeps me more engaged with driving as I said. But have to be very careful to not let it put me in a bad situation - it’s a real hazard. This is why I always try to maximize my disengagements.

Such as it is, I don't turn off the city streets stuff. At all.

Again: This is a Beta Testing Program. With Beta Testers. If you want better software, then one can (and does) turn in the bug reports: That's what that "disengagement" verbal dialog is all about.

The idea is that, given time, reports, and software development, the FSD-b product will get better, probably at some point being available for GA. There are people here who think that will never happen; people who think that they'll die of old age before it ever happens; people who think it'll happen tomorrow; and everything in between.

And I get it if one is frustrated that It's Not Perfect Yet and turns off the beta; but, if one wants to help Tesla (and oneself) to have a decent FSD, then continuing the bug-report dance is what I believe one should do.

AlanSubie4Life · Apr 15, 2023

EVNow said:
Tell him FSDb is "junk"

Lol, love it at 37 seconds when it surges forward towards an intersection, oblivious of the obviously jaywalking pedestrian that it needs to stop for. Then slams the brakes on to a stop (0.6g, 18 frames, 12mph, 1.5x speedup). After the intersection, it jerks the wheel back and forth wildly, swerving back and forth in a lane that is clearly marked such that lane changes are not available, with a bus lane to the right. Then it blithely changes lanes into the extremely clearly marked bus lane and carries on for at least a block or so (I stopped watching).

That indicates (to me at least) it is unusable in that area. But maybe I'm nuts.

Sadly, no disengagement reports produced.

rlsd · Apr 15, 2023

I found a consistent behavior of FSD 11.3.6: It think the shoulder area on the freeway entrance or exit is a car lane and it tries to veer the car into that area. I happened to me 3 times. Probably it does not recognize the solid line between the shoulder and the car lane as a barrier.

FloridaJohn · Apr 15, 2023

Tronguy said:
The idea is that, given time, reports, and software development, the FSD-b product will get better, probably at some point being available for GA. There are people here who think that will never happen; people who think that they'll die of old age before it ever happens; people who think it'll happen tomorrow; and everything in between.

The concern is mainly that current owners of the FSD software will no longer own the car by the time the software is viable. This is a legitimate concern at the current rate of software development.

Tronguy · Apr 15, 2023

FloridaJohn said:
The concern is mainly that current owners of the FSD software will no longer own the car by the time the software is viable. This is a legitimate concern at the current rate of software development.

Yep. I'm driving a 9/2018 delivery M3 LR RWD. It's had the computer upgrade for FSD and all. At 4.5 years old, it's not the oldest car that I've driven around as a daily driver.

On the other hand, that's supposed to be a million mile motor and transmission down there and the car's get-up and go has certainly not gotten up and went.

On the third hand, there are Teslas beginning to appear with more advanced sensor suites. So, we'll see.

Knightshade · Apr 15, 2023

FloridaJohn said:
The concern is mainly that current owners of the FSD software will no longer own the car by the time the software is viable. This is a legitimate concern at the current rate of software development.

Technically anybody who bought FSD after ~March 2019, and has fsdb, has already gotten everything promised during the purchase, since the only 2 "undelivered" features when they redefinied what they were selling were stoplight/stop signs which has been available for years now....and city streets, which is fsdb and available to everybody in NA who has FSD (for certain values of everybody)

The pre 3/19 buyers are still owed quite a bit feature-wise though that I agree they're unlikely to ever get on current cars-- the good news for Tesla is they're a relatively small # they'll need to refund, and they only paid ~3k for it.

AlanSubie4Life · Apr 15, 2023

Knightshade said:
has already gotten everything promised during the purchase, since the only 2 "undelivered" features when they redefinied what they were selling were stoplight/stop signs which has been available for years now....and city streets, which is fsdb and available to everybody in NA who has FSD (for certain values of everybody)

I think it is pretty clear Autosteer on City Streets has not yet been delivered since it cannot yet reliably Autosteer on City Streets.

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