FSD Beta v11.x

jebinc · May 8, 2023

aronth5 said:
Speculating on morale in Tesla's development teams has no value IMO.

Like your post above does….

Chris55555 · May 8, 2023

sandman1330 said:
Yeeeeah..... One day after multiple, multiple disengagements, I actually responded with "Because FSD f***ing sucks." I was that frustrated.

Today I disengaged so many times it actually stopped even giving me the voice prompt... I wonder if I filled up the buffer so there's no more room for data.

I'm the first to admit I'm gunshy about disengagements, but I will absolutely not let it do things that inconvenience or confuse other drivers. Hesitate at a turn: disengage. Swerve in lane: Disengage. Janky deceleration coming to a stop sign: Disengage. I already draw the ire of local drivers just by virtue of driving a Tesla in oil country, I don't need to give them more reasons to road rage. When I first got FSD I let it do it's thing, and got flipped off, swerved at, and honked at so much I won't do it anymore.

If you think you just need to adapt to it, it's either working alot better for you than for many of us, or your have stockholm syndrome

Hesitate at a turn: Touch the pedal to encourage the car. Janky deceleration coming to a stop sign: Touch the pedal to smooth out the deceleration.

This doesn't necessarily apply to you, but I feel like some testers refuse to work with the software and just expect perfection, possibly due to paying too much for a beta experience. I have hundreds of hours on 11.3 & 11.6 now and it just needs to be played like a musical instrument.

Yes, it can do crazy things and the lane selection is poor, but I'm pretty sure that's part of BETA testing.

This thread is nearly unreadable because of certain naysayers high-fiving each other for their new beta acronym and latest one-line refutation of the hard work going on behind the scenes, any chance we can discuss what's better without all the FUD? Because things are better, just look at the reaction from the guy on the California road trip 10 pages ago. The tone in here is acidic and it smacks of regret for bad financial decisions.

sandman1330 · May 8, 2023

Chris55555 said:
Hesitate at a turn: Touch the pedal to encourage the car. Janky deceleration coming to a stop sign: Touch the pedal to smooth out the deceleration.

This doesn't necessarily apply to you, but I feel like some testers refuse to work with the software and just expect perfection, possibly due to paying too much for a beta experience. I have hundreds of hours on 11.3 & 11.6 now and it just needs to be played like a musical instrument.

Yes, it can do crazy things and the lane selection is poor, but I'm pretty sure that's part of BETA testing.

This thread is nearly unreadable because of certain naysayers high-fiving each other for their new beta acronym and latest one-line refutation of the hard work going on behind the scenes, any chance we can discuss what's better without all the FUD? Because things are better, just look at the reaction from the guy on the California road trip 10 pages ago. The tone in here is acidic and it smacks of regret for bad financial decisions.

I prefer to disengage so I can actually utilize the voice feedback tool to report the issue. It won't get fixed if it isn't reported.

I do use the pedal quite liberally as well. However, I've noticed from time to time, if you override with even just a gentle push of the pedal, the thing will gun it and rocket away, leading to a disengagement anyway!

The point I'm trying to make is, using the pedal is still an intervention. The software is a long ways away from being intervention free.

Also the Beta argument is getting a bit old. Many here paid for this software years ago, and are getting close to trade-in time - If they trade in with the current policies, they will have never received what they paid for. Beta is beta of course, but it needs to show some prospect of going to release state in a reasonable timeframe. Alot of the anger around here is based on a view that the end product is looking farther and farther away.

mtndrew1 · May 8, 2023

Chris55555 said:
Hesitate at a turn: Touch the pedal to encourage the car. Janky deceleration coming to a stop sign: Touch the pedal to smooth out the deceleration.

This doesn't necessarily apply to you, but I feel like some testers refuse to work with the software and just expect perfection, possibly due to paying too much for a beta experience. I have hundreds of hours on 11.3 & 11.6 now and it just needs to be played like a musical instrument.

Yes, it can do crazy things and the lane selection is poor, but I'm pretty sure that's part of BETA testing.

This thread is nearly unreadable because of certain naysayers high-fiving each other for their new beta acronym and latest one-line refutation of the hard work going on behind the scenes, any chance we can discuss what's better without all the FUD? Because things are better, just look at the reaction from the guy on the California road trip 10 pages ago. The tone in here is acidic and it smacks of regret for bad financial decisions.

What’s the trick for “pull across traffic in front of an oncoming truck then come to a complete stop”?

FSDb really REALLY bad in my car. There seems to be a wide spectrum of experiences, of course, but my car can go maybe a mile or two before it puts itself into a situation that can’t be overcome by nudging the throttle or something.

My litmus is how long I can go before I get “turn that #*%+ing thing off!” from my spouse. It’s been about half a mile since September of 2021.

Chris55555 · May 8, 2023

kabin said:
Unfortunately I and others online have experience red light and stop sign runs. It's the real deal. No one should be surprised to hear FSDb doesn't always work as intended.

Hopefully most acknowledge the lowest form of AV life is not an easy problem to solve. On the other hand, the downside of Elon's motivation is turning science into a near faith based FSD salvation show for profit. That works for a little while but reality bites. And a number of big players over the years have spent big money and fallen to the wayside while acknowledging the goal isn't possible at this time. Someone will eventually solve it but it isn't in the cards for Elon's low cost sensor-neutered HW3.

It all depends how many layers of the onion one wants to delve into. Superficially FSDb is the bomb. But looking closer at safety critical scenarios it's an arcade game trying to claim real world credit with game restarts so long as the human unsorts frequent real time issues in time.

Time will tell if there will be enough free-money to continue investing in AV projects. Gawd knows free money isn't available like it was a year or two ago.

Absolute FUD. Free money? Tesla isn't profitable? Ridiculous take

jebinc · May 8, 2023

sandman1330 said:
I prefer to disengage so I can actually utilize the voice feedback tool to report the issue. It won't get fixed if it isn't reported.

I do use the pedal quite liberally as well. However, I've noticed from time to time, if you override with even just a gentle push of the pedal, the thing will gun it and rocket away, leading to a disengagement anyway!

The point I'm trying to make is, using the pedal is still an intervention. The software is a long ways away from being intervention free.

Also the Beta argument is getting a bit old. Many here paid for this software years ago, and are getting close to trade-in time - If they trade in with the current policies, they will have never received what they paid for. Beta is beta of course, but it needs to show some prospect of going to release state in a reasonable timeframe. Alot of the anger around here is based on a view that the end product is looking farther and farther away.

Correct. Some of us have been in this from the first release of beta, nearly two year’s ago, and have traveled down a lot of FSD(j) beta road, unlike some newcomers…

Chris55555 · May 8, 2023

sandman1330 said:
I prefer to disengage so I can actually utilize the voice feedback tool to report the issue. It won't get fixed if it isn't reported.

I do use the pedal quite liberally as well. However, I've noticed from time to time, if you override with even just a gentle push of the pedal, the thing will gun it and rocket away, leading to a disengagement anyway!

The point I'm trying to make is, using the pedal is still an intervention. The software is a long ways away from being intervention free.

Also the Beta argument is getting a bit old. Many here paid for this software years ago, and are getting close to trade-in time - If they trade in with the current policies, they will have never received what they paid for. Beta is beta of course, but it needs to show some prospect of going to release state in a reasonable timeframe. Alot of the anger around here is based on a view that the end product is looking farther and farther away.

Thank you for making my points for me:

1. You expect bleeding edge software to work perfectly.

2. You admit to regret from a bad financial decision

jebinc · May 8, 2023

Chris55555 said:
Thank you for making my points for me:

1. You expect bleeding edge software to work perfectly.

2. You admit to regret from a bad financial decision

While I don’t wish to speak for those that you replied to above, consider the fact that many of Tesla’s functionalities are in a perpetual “beta” state. Prior posts already list the many features in that state; some being in that perpetual “beta” state for nearly a decade…. So, your point is invalid as you assume FSD(j) is in a typical software lifecycle “beta” phase, when it clearly is not. It has been in “beta” state for two years already, and doesn’t appear to be moving out of that state any time soon. And add to that, all of the falsehoods spouted by Elon, re FSD, over the years (including faked promotional video four years ago). Just sayin’…..

EVNow · May 8, 2023

jebinc said:
While I don’t wish to speak for those that you replied to above, consider the fact that many of Tesla’s functionalities are in a perpetual “beta” state. Prior posts already list the many features in that state; some being in that perpetual “beta” state for nearly a decade…. So, your point is invalid as you assume FSD(j) is in a typical software lifecycle “beta” phase, when it clearly is not. It has been in “beta” state for two years already, and doesn’t appear to be moving out of that state any time soon. And add to that, all of the falsehoods spouted by Elon, re FSD, over the years (including faked promotional video four years ago). Just sayin’…..

As has been pointed out several times - Tesla is not the only company to have beta software (in perpetuity). Ofcourse just because Amazon doesn't label Alexa as beta doesn't mean its correct all the time.

Basically, anything with NN seems to make a lot of mistakes. Whether they call it beta or not doesn't matter. Even simple lane assist in our Toyota Sienna (which was half the price of my FSD ! 1.5k vs 3k) makes a lot of mistakes. So does my camera door bell.

kabin · May 8, 2023

Chris55555 said:
Absolute FUD. Free money? Tesla isn't profitable? Ridiculous take

Please read my post again if you think I said TSLA isn't profitable. You can search 'free money' online if you want to learn about that. I avoid those silly FUD kool-aid threads.

Joboo7777 · May 8, 2023

So it finally happened. Strike 1 received on a long trip from Dallas to Iowa City (and back).

To be fair it was justified. Yes I’m guilty. Based on other forum post I’m probably the only guilty Tesla Driver to receive a strike..lol. My question is related to how V11 handles strikes. I understand if you get 5 you will lose acces to FSD beta for a few weeks then it resets. But if I do not receive any more strikes does it still reset back to 0 in a few weeks? The other question I have is does 1 strike impact the ability to receive timely FSD beta updates? Would be a shame if I miss out on 11.4.x.

Thanks I’m advance!
Coming from the only guilty strike recipient using FSD beta..

jebinc · May 8, 2023

EVNow said:
As has been pointed out several times - Tesla is not the only company to have beta software (in perpetuity). Ofcourse just because Amazon doesn't label Alexa as beta doesn't mean its correct all the time.

Basically, anything with NN seems to make a lot of mistakes. Whether they call it beta or not doesn't matter. Even simple lane assist in our Toyota Sienna (which was half the price of my FSD ! 1.5k vs 3k) makes a lot of mistakes. So does my camera door bell.

Okay, humor us… List one software product tagged and advertised as “beta” for nearly a decade, outside of the ones from Tesla.

Of course, fully released software products can still have bugs (like iOS), but we are not talking about that situation here. We are talking about a company “hiding” under a perpetual “beta” tag for whatever reasons (skirting liability, I presume)….

kabin · May 8, 2023

Chris55555 said:
Hesitate at a turn: Touch the pedal to encourage the car. Janky deceleration coming to a stop sign: Touch the pedal to smooth out the deceleration.

This doesn't necessarily apply to you, but I feel like some testers refuse to work with the software and just expect perfection, possibly due to paying too much for a beta experience. I have hundreds of hours on 11.3 & 11.6 now and it just needs to be played like a musical instrument.

Yes, it can do crazy things and the lane selection is poor, but I'm pretty sure that's part of BETA testing.

This thread is nearly unreadable because of certain naysayers high-fiving each other for their new beta acronym and latest one-line refutation of the hard work going on behind the scenes, any chance we can discuss what's better without all the FUD? Because things are better, just look at the reaction from the guy on the California road trip 10 pages ago. The tone in here is acidic and it smacks of regret for bad financial decisions.

Throttle control doesn't always solve incorrect brake or indecisiveness. Sometimes FSD needs to brake and no amount of throttle changes it. In fact sometimes after removing throttle input FSD brakes harder. it's much smoother and safer to disengage when the FSD underwhelms. This isn't a game. And each driver makes their own decision based on comfort, safety, and performance.

It's incorrect to assume 'testers' as you put it should just drive and shut the hell up. We are customers and our input is important for system improvement. On the other hand, it feels like if Elon and the TSLA team had their way they'd have stuck a fork in FSD a long ago with the crap they have been putting out.

After 9 years or so of FSD BS let me be the first to welcome you to reality.

EVNow · May 8, 2023

jebinc said:
Okay, humor us… List one software product tagged and advertised as “beta” for nearly a decade, outside of the ones from Tesla.

Some games, I've forgotten the names. Search ...

Still waiting for your comments on Alexa etc.

Knightshade · May 8, 2023

jebinc said:
Okay, humor us… List one software product tagged and advertised as “beta” for nearly a decade, outside of the ones from Tesla.

Gmail was in beta for over 5 years, all while having vastly more users than FSD.

Google very commonly keeps stuff in beta a LONG time.

kabin said:
After 9 years or so of FSD BS let me be the first to welcome you to reality.

FSD was first available for purchase in October/November of 2016.

So 9 years qualifies as "bs", it hasn't even been 7 yet.

jebinc · May 8, 2023

EVNow said:
Some games, I've forgotten the names. Search ...

Still waiting for your comments on Alexa etc.

Re Alexa, see my point on iOS. Same.

EVNow · May 8, 2023

jebinc said:
Re Alexa, see my point on iOS. Same.

Not talking about traditional s/w bugs ... NN issues are quite different (and exactly like FSD problems).

jebinc · May 8, 2023

EVNow said:
Not talking about traditional s/w bugs ... NN issues are quite different (and exactly like FSD problems).

Could be; I have no idea. My history coding ended with c++.

EVNow · May 8, 2023

We could be using this thread for a long time ...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1655318205236215811

PACEMD · May 8, 2023

Dewg said:
Let people know your experience, but you don't have to repeat the same thing over and over again.

Also, just an observation: The people with poor experiences are much more vocal and acerbic on the forums than the so-called shills. You and others have adopted "junk" as your moniker and use it as much as possible, but you rarely see someone with a positive experience with the opposite behavior - such as using "perfection" (FSDp) every post and posting pictures of gold stars or something similar.

Now, if this is all just "fun" and you guys are legitimately bored, then I'd remind you that TMC is growing and new members are joining frequently, some needing help.

Perfection. FSDp

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