FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[EVNow]

It's not journalism. It's intentional rumor innuendo to entice followers and garner influence. It's very successful because we crave speculative titillation.

Possible ... but shouldn't be surprising if they have an employee source with *some* non-public information. Most likely someone who is not in AP team (or a dev without high level information / decision making powers), so won't have 1st hand info.

BTW, AP team itself will be changing plans often depending on how things turn out. So, it is quite possible Telescope got the right info, but the plans changed.

 

[Knightshade]

Ok but you say absolutely and in the next line you say almost certain.

Because I'm talking about two different things.

We ABSOLUTELY do not know what you claimed we know.

And it's very likely the public facing version will be different software.


Those are different things, and the second one is WHY we ABSOLUTELY (the first one) do not "know" what you claimed.

 

[Gbills]

Because I'm talking about two different things.

We ABSOLUTELY do not know what you claimed we know.

And it's very likely the public facing version will be different software.


Those are different things, and the second one is WHY we ABSOLUTELY (the first one) do not "know" what you claimed.

Good you know

 

[aerodyne]

Well 2022 is over, and we don't have the FSD we were promised at the Q3 earning call, by the end of the year, worldwide, iirc.

Just occured to me Elon said by the end of the year, but not WHICH year end.

Oh well, better luck...next year.

 

[Knightshade]

Well 2022 is over, and we don't have the FSD we were promised at the Q3 earning call, by the end of the year, worldwide, iirc.

You do not, in fact, rc.

He said everyone in North America would have FSDb available by end of the year.

we expect to go to wide release of full self-driving beta in North America. So, anyone who has ordered a full self-driving beta -- full self-driving will have access to the FSD beta program this year

Which, it appears, they do.

 

[scottf200]

Which, it appears, they do.

There is another TMC thread with AP2.0 camera folks (pre-July 2017) that still have purchase FSD but still have not gotten their official invite to get the cameras updated. Mine didn't come until the end of Oct 22 and I just recently got the FSDbeta OTA.

 

[aerodyne]

You do not, in fact, rc.

He said everyone in North America would have FSDb available by end of the year.




Which, it appears, they do.

Not seeing a lot of Influencers or folks here raving about the single stack, and how much better it is.

Seems like just a rehash of what was limited access before.

New law in effect in CA about not calling FSD when it is not. You would think that if the only thing keeping FSDb from being FSD is "Regulatory Approval" they would be keen to have FSD v11 released yesterday.

 

[Supcom]

Not seeing a lot of Influencers or folks here raving about the single stack, and how much better it is.

Maybe the fact that Tesla has not released single-stack to anyone but employees has a little do do with the lack of reviews.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Which, it appears, they do.

They may now (and I am being generous with that), but definitely not everyone by the end of the year.

For example someone who didn’t know they had to request it, and also who was not pushed the general non-request version by last night. Certainly these people exist as we can see from the version tracking.

 

[Knightshade]

They may now (and I am being generous with that), but definitely not everyone by the end of the year.

For example someone who didn’t know they had to request it, and also who was not pushed the general non-request version by last night.

He said they'd have access to it (exact words).

Not "They would have it force pushed to them by then"

So "available if you request it" certainly qualifies as available to them.


The MCU1 folks who haven't gotten in the parts for HW upgrades however is a far more valid objection to missing this goal- but honestly they've been stepping on their own junk regarding Model S/X stuff since the refresh- no idea what the heck is going on there.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So "available if you request it" certainly qualifies as available to them.

But what if you don’t know? You would actually have to pay attention! It’s definitely not available if you don’t know. Unlike just having the update pushed to your car and then not enabling FSD.

The MCU1 folks who haven't gotten in the parts for HW upgrades however is a far more valid objection to missing this goal- but honestly they've been stepping on their own junk regarding Model S/X stuff since the refresh- no idea what the heck is going on there.

Agreed but I didn’t want to make the argument too simple for myself!

 

[Knightshade]

But what if you don’t know? You would actually have to pay attention! It’s definitely not available if you don’t know.

Sure it is.

If a new taco restaurant opens on the next block, in an area that previously lacked tacos, and I did not know about this miraculous event, tacos would still be AVAILABLE to me. I'd just lack the knowledge of their availability, it would still exist.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Sure it is.

If a new taco restaurant opens on the next block, in an area that previously lacked tacos, and I did not know about this miraculous event, tacos would still be AVAILABLE to me. I'd just lack the knowledge of their availability, it would still exist.

Sure. Anyway the point remains it was not available to everyone Elon specified. And most likely that even included people with the right hardware (for example someone who just bought a vehicle in factory firmware and not allowed to upgrade, etc., who had not done enough AP miles, etc.)

Hard to know exactly.

 

[N00bMaster69]

Honestly, if we’re being truthful, the amount of people who “don’t know” is minimal. And if you do fall in that category, it might be best you don’t use it until the feature matures and they make it more straightforward. i.e. the MKBHD video.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Honestly, if we’re being truthful, the amount of people who “don’t know” is minimal. And if you do fall in that category, it might be best you don’t use it until the feature matures and they make it more straightforward. i.e. the MKBHD video.

I have no idea the number of people but my guess is in absolute terms the number is probably quite large. Most people don’t pay attention to forums. The mindset of this group and familiarity of course is important but I think we’re basically at the pinnacle of FSD performance at this point with this hardware. So “maturing” I think is a bit optimistic.

But anyway overall it does not matter.

 

[willow_hiller]

But what if you don’t know?

My wife's profile on our car doesn't have FSD Beta enabled, and it actually had one of those "Driver tips" pop up in the lower left-hand corner that said "Try enabling FSD Beta" with a toggle switch.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

My wife's profile on our car doesn't have FSD Beta enabled, and it actually had one of those "Driver tips" pop up in the lower left-hand corner that said "Try enabling FSD Beta" with a toggle switch.

As mentioned, doesn’t matter, but you’d have to have the FSD Beta software for this presumably.

 

[dckiwi]

It will probably depend on V11 number and the installation number you are on. Maybe by the time V11 comes out all of us are on the same number!!! That would be one way we can all get it at the same.time.

Even after they've merged the 'released' version of FSD Beta into the main release branch, they're going to want to keep a beta program (EAP?) available to test and gradually roll out major new FSD Beta releases (such as v11). I can't see them ever getting to the point where they roll out a major FSDb update to all cars at the same time.

While we're on the subject - is EAP still a thing? It used to exist pre-FSDb for testing of new software releases. Haven't heard of it in years though.

 

[momo3605]

Even after they've merged the 'released' version of FSD Beta into the main release branch, they're going to want to keep a beta program (EAP?) available to test and gradually roll out major new FSD Beta releases (such as v11). I can't see them ever getting to the point where they roll out a major FSDb update to all cars at the same time.

While we're on the subject - is EAP still a thing? It used to exist pre-FSDb for testing of new software releases. Haven't heard of it in years though.

FSDb replaced Early access program in the last couple years.

 

[JulienW]

FSDb replaced Early access program in the last couple years.

Really?