FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[Aayyo]

Elon says 11 was planned for this year but was *surprise* delayed. It is in ”alpha” now.

Question is what is alpha … rough with a lot of bugs ? But that is what Beta looks like !

To me alpha sounds like a POC - proof of concept. Significant dev work remains, apart from fixing bugs. Hope we get 11 by this time next year.

Wait. It’s only February. The guy said, ‘he says it, it may not be when he said it was going to happen. But it ultimately happened. So patient. Two weeks it was reported mid January. E M. reviewing it. Let start to count down on how long the boss’s review of a milestone event takes. 14, 13, 12…………6….3…20..3..2…30…39………2…..60…….50…..30…….x……Day FSDb 11 Released! Patience. The boss has promised. Never mind. You paid for FSD CAPABLE CAR. NOT FOR ACTUALLY DRIVING IT. SO TAKE THE ELON GIFT OF FSDb and HOLD YOUR PEACE.

 

[EVNow]

25.2 is a major regression.

In what way ?

Remember there is a lot of variability based on conditions. You have to get a consistent result to say something is a regression.

 

[Aayyo]

In what way ?

Remember there is a lot of variability based on conditions. You have to get a consistent result to say something is a regression.

Consistently leaving the road to divert to a bus stop is a regression. It did not do so for six months through many upgrades. Now it does it always at that same bus stop. I now anticipate the route and avoids using the fsd until I have gone beyond that point.

 

[EVNow]

Consistently leaving the road to divert to a bus stop is a regression. It did not do so for six months through many upgrades. Now it does it always at that same bus stop. I now anticipate the route and avoids using the fsd until I have gone beyond that point.

Interesting. Does it happen in other places ?

Funny thing is - on one of my routes FSDb would take the right turn lane that turned into some apartment complex instead of going straight. But 25.2 fixed it

 

[willow_hiller]

Consistently leaving the road to divert to a bus stop is a regression. It did not do so for six months through many upgrades. Now it does it always at that same bus stop. I now anticipate the route and avoids using the fsd until I have gone beyond that point.

FSD Beta loves bus lanes. Especially if there's a physical median dividing the main road from the bus lane. In the absence of sign-reading, there's nothing inherently wrong about the drivable space of a bus lane. And when the median's there, it often gives FSD Beta the false impression that the main lane might be an on-coming traffic lane.

 

[Aayyo]

Interesting. Does it happen in other places ?

Funny thing is - on one of my routes FSDb would take the right turn lane that turned into some apartment complex instead of going straight. But 25.2 fixed it

Yes. I have seen it get confused when there is a turning right into a strip Mall complex entrance a short distance from the traffic light /intersection where it was going to make a right turn. This too is consistent. But it will rectify it quick enough- just some jerky moments. its okay when I’m alone. Now I anticipate that too.

 

[EVNow]

FSD Beta loves bus lanes. Especially if there's a physical median dividing the main road from the bus lane. In the absence of sign-reading, there's nothing inherently wrong about the drivable space of a bus lane. And when the median's there, it often gives FSD Beta the false impression that the main lane might be an on-coming traffic lane.

I think the default behavior of FSD is to drive on the right most lane. So, when the map doesn't have all the correct information, it will just take the right most lane, which could be bus lane, tram lane or frequently right turn lane.

 

[Aayyo]

FSD Beta loves bus lanes. Especially if there's a physical median dividing the main road from the bus lane. In the absence of sign-reading, there's nothing inherently wrong about the drivable space of a bus lane. And when the median's there, it often gives FSD Beta the false impression that the main lane might be an on-coming traffic lane.

No this was driving into a bus stop. Not a lane that is drivable at this road shown below a bus stop. Not a lane that is drivable

 

[JulienW]

No this was driving into a bus stop. Not a lane that is drivable at this road shown below a bus stop. Not a lane that is drivable

Two days ago mine tried to (wide) left turn into a bike Path. Then 2 blocks down I was making a right and instead of turning 90º it headed for the Path again.

 

[ddeflyer]

Two days ago mine tried to (wide) left turn into a bike Path. Then 2 blocks down I was making a right and instead of turning 90º it headed for the Path again.

View attachment 902592

Obviously you've been charging from renewable sources too much so your Tesla now thinks it is a bicycle!

 

[sleepydoc]

Interesting. Does it happen in other places ?

Funny thing is - on one of my routes FSDb would take the right turn lane that turned into some apartment complex instead of going straight. But 25.2 fixed it

Since getting 25.2 I’ve found nothing to be improved and several things that seem to be worse So I’m comfortable saying there are at least no improvements and may be some regressions.

Not sure if it’s 25.2 specific or not but I also got another unprovoked strike after updating.

 

[heapmaster]

Tesla is now offering a free magnetic bumper sticker with each FSDb purchase...

 

[Twiglett]

Since getting 25.2 I’ve found nothing to be improved and several things that seem to be worse So I’m comfortable saying there are at least no improvements and may be some regressions.

Not sure if it’s 25.2 specific or not but I also got another unprovoked strike after updating.

That is my experience as well. The whole .25.x series has been finding new ways to be annoying.
When driving on a dead straight road with no junctions and it does that whole one indicator flash followed by the almost instant "assertive" swing to the left. I prevent it from crossing the line, but other drivers must think I'm some kind of psycho and my family get the sharp neck snap as I drag the car back into its lane.
I didn't get FSD to make the family feel uncomfortable or nauseous on trips - so this release is the least used of the recent versions.
Thinking I need to get an out of state license plate so people expect the "I have no clue where I'm going" behavior - which is pathetic some something that knows exactly where it is and the route to get there, but just can't ever pick the correct lane.

 

[powertoold]

That's odd, I find 25.2 to be in general smoother, more human-like on turns, have better turn planning on city-streets.

There're some regressions but nothing major for me (in the Bay Area).

 

[kabin]

For me 25.2 had some areas of smoothness but nothing consistent. The overall product remains rough, clunky, and not something I can comfortably drive or something simulating attentive, proactive, anticipatory, courteous human driving. Maybe a good summary is 25.2 feels like AI generated software that humans never road tested.

 

[Scott Chapman]

I swear I hear 25.2 scream "what the fudge" at certain intersections around me.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Looks like Elon is hyper focused on v11, so can expect the rollout to start this weekend! Finally, just three months after release to internal team.

 

[kabin]

I swear I hear 25.2 scream "what the fudge" at certain intersections around me.

Or nearby pedestrians and drivers?

 

[azred]

Looks like Elon is hyper focused on v11, so can expect the rollout to start this weekend! Finally, just three months after release to internal team.

Should be exciting. The bizarre lane changes etc. that are typical on city streets FSD will move to the freeways and do their thing at 80 mph instead of 45.

 

[Scott Chapman]

Looks like Elon is hyper focused on v11, so can expect the rollout to start this weekend! Finally, just three months after release to internal team.

Based on what exactly? Tomorrow is always a day away...