FSD Beta v11.x

GBleck · Feb 20, 2023

pwlorraine said:
Turn vs through lane confusion is my big problem with FSD beta. I’ve found that intersections that show the lanes correctly on the vector google map view work fine, but the ones that are not marked are misidentified visually frequently. I wish Tesla would allow us to “decorate” their maps with additional detail showing correct lanes, driveway locations, etc, to allow the car to learn from experience rather than repeating the same mistake every day.

I liked FSD beta quite a lot but have this lane problem requiring intervention frequently in my neighborhood - drove my wife crazy as a passenger. I will resubscribe again after a few more iterations. I am optimistic that they can solve this but will wait until they do.

Same. I have a right turn on my way to work with no right turn lane at the intersection and two exit lanes that go to a parking lot before the turn that it constantly miss handles and gets into the second exit lane. If It's no traffic I will sometimes let it take the wrong lane and then re-enter the correct lane.

hobbes · Feb 20, 2023

JulienW said:
Wonder if this is an employee only feature and won't be in the consumer release/Notes? No way would they remove Camera data feedback and give 400k the ability to record "analog" messages that MUST be listened to then "decoded", tagged and labeled by humans. That would requires 10s of thousands of human employees to accomplish.

View attachment 909272

Voice recognition works quite well these days (as experienced in any Tesla), just saying...

powertoold · Feb 20, 2023

Knightshade said:
If the claim isn't actually covered by warranty it wouldn't be a warranty claim. There's pretty specific accounting rules on that.

If a system on the vehicle fails under warranty, leading to damage, that repair is absolutely a warranty claim.

Then what else COULD it be? I'm not asking you to tell us what it was, I'm saying what other possibilities even exist, given the rules around warranty claim accounting, and the specific things the recall covers? It's entirely possible I'm not thinking of a possibility and am totally open to hearing what else would fit the info we DO have?

It would be odd if Tesla reported accidents as warranty claims, especially on a nhtsa report. We also have no break down for the cause of these 18 claims. Is it from rolling stops or running lights or speeding?

PVia · Feb 20, 2023

I don't believe FSDb performance is a warranty issue. I'm not making apologies or excuses for Tesla, just stating what I believe may be true (without looking at the actual warranty at this moment).

arnolddeleon · Feb 20, 2023

Dan D. said:
If the logs or the speedometer say 1 mph but the car is actually stopped (wheels aren't moving) then Tesla still has no defense. They must stop longer to allow the logs & speedometer to say 0 mph. You can't say "but 1 mph is stopped", after all you could actually be doing 1 mph too. Logs are the evidence and saying 1 mph is evidence of 1 mph.

My understanding is they "know" that it is zero and are for physics definition at zero but NHTSA "forces" them to always display a higher number. I suspect their logs show it is zero. The problem is what is displayed. If you ever compare indicated speed (on the speedometer) vs same accurate and precise device you will NEVER see the number on the screen be greater than the number you measure with the other tool.

It's not a sensing issue. The penalties are such that every manufacturer adds a safety buffer to their display and probably ends up lagging for the special case of zero because there is basically zero incentive for them to report the more precise and accurate number.

JHCCAZ · Feb 20, 2023

If you look at the How to Sue Tesla thread,

arnolddeleon said:
My understanding is they "know" that it is zero and are for physics definition at zero but NHTSA "forces" them to always display a higher number. I suspect their logs show it is zero. The problem is what is displayed. If you ever compare indicated speed (on the speedometer) vs same accurate and precise device you will NEVER see the number on the screen be greater than the number you measure with the other tool.

It's not a sensing issue. The penalties are such that every manufacturer adds a safety buffer to their display and probably ends up lagging for the special case of zero because there is basically zero incentive for them to report the more precise and accurate number.

I agree with this explanation. However we should also note that the display certainly does indicate zero when the car has been stopped for more than a fraction of a second. Apparently, the currently-programmed stop duration is shorter than the lag needed for the display to scroll all the way down to zero. Perhaps someone could point to the actual wording of the NHTSA rule that leads to the 1 mph display confusion.

swedge · Feb 20, 2023

Knightshade said:
What do you suppose those claims were if nothing was damaged by hitting something?

I could only guess, but we have heard of several camera problems which would generate warranty claims but not crash reports. Collisions typically result in collision insurance claims but not warranty claims. In any case, my understanding is that all collisions involving ADAS are required to be reported. (link) The linked report shows they have 273 Tesla crash reports, but does not distinguish FSD beta from AutoPilot.

I would expect that in the risk evaluation, if there were any crashes with FSD engaged in the situations they are describing, NHTSA would have said so.

EVNow · Feb 20, 2023

Knightshade said:
If the claim isn't actually covered by warranty it wouldn't be a warranty claim. There's pretty specific accounting rules on that.

Could be a simple camera issue.

EVNow · Feb 20, 2023

https://twitter.com/x/status/1627830598357385216

willow_hiller · Feb 20, 2023

EVNow said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1627830598357385216

If the squiggly blue line of FSD versions 10 and below was the "intentacle," what should we call this new visual? Looks like a big blue beam to me.

Supcom · Feb 20, 2023

willow_hiller said:
If the squiggly blue line of FSD versions 10 and below was the "intentacle," what should we call this new visual? Looks like a big blue beam to me.

Path of Destruction?

EVNow · Feb 20, 2023

willow_hiller said:
If the squiggly blue line of FSD versions 10 and below was the "intentacle," what should we call this new visual? Looks like a big blue beam to me.

Blue Man Band.

JHCCAZ · Feb 20, 2023

willow_hiller said:
If the squiggly blue line of FSD versions 10 and below was the "intentacle," what should we call this new visual? Looks like a big blue beam to me.

Supcom said:
Path of Destruction?

Out d'way

powertoold · Feb 20, 2023

E.C.

As in:
S
E
C

If ya know what I'm sayin

JHCCAZ · Feb 20, 2023

My Way on the Highway

wknickless · Feb 20, 2023

willow_hiller said:
If the squiggly blue line of FSD versions 10 and below was the "intentacle," what should we call this new visual? Looks like a big blue beam to me.

As A Matter Of Fact It Is My Road (AAMOFIIMR), pronounced "ammo-FEE-mur", as in throwing a leg into a cannon or something.

powertoold · Feb 20, 2023

https://twitter.com/x/status/1627862910033887232

archae86 · Feb 20, 2023

So TeslaBull gave us a clear instance of actual behavior of the new verbal description of disengagement function. As I saw it:

1. disengagement occurred (in this case it appeared to be by user steering wheel force above breakout level).
2. car detected disengagement and posted a prompt on the screen inviting user description
3. If so inclined, the driver just pushes the voice input button and says something about what happened.

I like it.

Knightshade · Feb 20, 2023

EVNow said:
Could be a simple camera issue.

What camera issue would be a warranty claim -and- relate to the recall for FSDb? A hardware issue would certainly be a warranty claim but NOT relate to the FSDb defects listed.

swedge said:
I could only guess, but we have heard of several camera problems which would generate warranty claims but not crash reports.

See above question.

powertoold said:
It would be odd if Tesla reported accidents as warranty claims, especially on a nhtsa report. We also have no break down for the cause of these 18 claims. Is it from rolling stops or running lights or speeding?

I agree there's no breakdown-- but OTHER than accident damage, how would any of those generate any claim at all? What would need to be fixed under warranty and how was it damaged?

PVia said:
I don't believe FSDb performance is a warranty issue. I'm not making apologies or excuses for Tesla, just stating what I believe may be true (without looking at the actual warranty at this moment).

Then what were the 18 warranty claims Tesla says are directly related to the recall conditions of FSDb?

Specific wording from the recall:

Tesla in the recall notice said:
- As of February 14, 2023, Tesla has identified 18 warranty claims, received between May 8, 2019, and September 12, 2022, that may be related to the conditions described above.

The conditions listed higher up as the defect description are:

Tesla said:
1) traveling or turning through certain intersections during a stale yellow traffic light;

2) the perceived duration of the vehicle’s static position at certain intersections with
a stop sign, particularly when the intersection is clear of any other road users;

3) adjusting vehicle speed while traveling through certain variable speed
zones, based on detected speed limit signage and/or the vehicle's speed offset
setting that is adjusted by the driver; and

4) negotiating a lane change out of certain turn-only lanes to continue traveling straight

So they have 18 warranty claims related to those 4 conditions.

Would someone opening a service ticket just saying "It did an illegal lane change but nothing bad happened" show up as a warranty claim? (if it did I'd have to think there'd be a lot more than 18 of em given how bad FSDb is on lanbes especially- plus the other 3 issues on top

archae86 said:
So TeslaBull gave us a clear instance of actual behavior of the new verbal description of disengagement function. As I saw it:

1. disengagement occurred (in this case it appeared to be by user steering wheel force above breakout level).
2. car detected disengagement and posted a prompt on the screen inviting user description
3. If so inclined, the driver just pushes the voice input button and says something about what happened.

I like it.

Agreed that looks pretty good.... be very interesting to see if it makes it beyond employees or not when 11.x eventually rolls wider

powertoold · Feb 20, 2023

Knightshade said:
Would someone opening a service ticket just saying "It did an illegal lane change but nothing bad happened" show up as a warranty claim? (if it did I'd have to think there'd be a lot more than 18 of em given how bad FSDb is on lanbes especially- plus the other 3 issues on top"

In an NHTSA recall report about safety, why would a collision of any type be called a "warranty claim"? Seems odd.

And if there was a collision related to these defects, wouldn't at least one of them have some injury involved, even if very minor?

We just don't have enough information to conclude anything.

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