FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[aronth5]

Anyone notice this in the OTA recall section: The option for an absolute Speed Limit offset in FSD Beta was removed; only the percent-based offset will be available.

This is crazy! I always use absolute offset

No it's not crazy. I used absolute speed a few times and never l like it so changed to percentage years ago.

 

[diplomat33]

Where would you put the last disengagement where he left a "was in the incorrect lane" voice drive-note. Here FSD Beta is getting to the quality/benefit of NoA especially in unfamiliar areas where it actually was in the better lane for getting on the highway. Tesla might have a metric of "false disengagements" where maybe that trend could actually indicate when humans get things wrong.

Are you talking about at the 21:48 mark? FSD beta did fail to use the blinker and also tried to go on a "no turn on red". So that was not good.

 

[aronth5]

Yep; shill reports incoming soon:

Most of the YouTube influencers I watch produce pretty balanced videos with both the good and bad. Bedsides Omar who do you consider a shill?

 

[aronth5]

Looks like I'll be keeping 25.2 for a while, complete stop in middle of road here:

When? I saw FSD pause taking a right into an intersection when a car was coming thru but didn't notice a complete stop. Did I miss it?
There were no comments on this by YouTube watchers either.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

When? I saw FSD pause taking a right into an intersection when a car was coming thru but didn't notice a complete stop. Did I miss it?
There were no comments on this by YouTube watchers either.

1:29

 

[Knightshade]

F the NHTSA (re: stop signs). It's going to make it unusable in SF. No regard for actual safety at all.

Waymo is operating actual robotaxis in SF. They, like FSDb now with 11, also obey the actual law and stop at stop signs. Doesn't seem to be safety problem for them either.

Self-driving systems will obey all traffic laws. The sooner you and others accept that fact the better.

 

[cowleggies]

What are the chances of 2022.45.10 going wide release? Seeing YTers posting it is tantalizing and 2022.44.30.10 is feeling mighty stale.

 

[EVNow]

Yep; shill reports incoming soon:

Stop accusing others of being shills - or provide evidence that they take money from Tesla to push lies.

 

[powertoold]

I guess this is the typical pattern:

New major version with architectural changes = very conservative, stops / unnecessarily brakes for everything

Over time, it'll get more assertive and have less unnecessary braking.

 

[powertoold]

Based on the visualizations in this area, I don't think Tesla has increased the resolution of the occupancy network. They still seem blobby:

 

[powertoold]

Doesn't seem to be safety problem for them either.

Zero evidence fsdb or AVs stopping to 0mph increases safety. Most(?) AVs related accidents for Waymo are rear ends. Plus Waymos standout in appearance as clearly an AV, so people don't attribute rage to the person in the driver seat. You try to drive in SF by stopping to 0mph every time and see how risky it feels.

 

[MobileClimate]

I thought HW3 wasn’t enough ? Ok

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Zero evidence fsdb or AVs stopping to 0mph increases safety. Most(?) AVs related accidents for Waymo are rear ends. Plus Waymos standout in appearance as clearly an AV, so people don't attribute rage to the person in the driver seat. You try to drive in SF by stopping to 0mph every time and see how risky it feels.

This obsession with 0mph is bizarre. This is NOT THE PROBLEM with the stops. Obviously.

It’s very easy to make a quick legal stop. Over and over again, in SF. Tesla has chosen not to do it, probably to avoid alarming the driver, though it seems extremely overdone.

Do we need a video training?

Even with the verbiage in the release notes it is not clear to me what Tesla changed, but I am glad they are changing something about how they stop, because it is very bad. Hopefully they’ll keep working on it and allow it to be more assertive about stopping. But stopping to 0mph is cool. Probably could do it better than most humans if they actually tried.

 

[powertoold]

This obsession with 0mph is bizarre. This is NOT THE PROBLEM with the stops. Obviously.

It’s very easy to make a quick legal stop. Over and over again, in SF. Tesla has chosen not to do it, probably to avoid alarming the driver, though it seems extremely overdone.

I experience impatience / rage / honking from the behind car all the time in SF if I'm too slow at stop signs.

And I've seen some instances of honking and/or rage overtaking in fsd videos in SF at slow stops.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I experience impatience and rage from the behind car all the time in SF if I'm too slow at stop signs.

And I've seen some instances of honking and/or overtaking in fsd videos in SF.

Yeah, don’t be too slow at stop signs! It’s very annoying to people behind you. This is one of the problems with FSDb, as everyone knows - it’s extremely bad and virtually everyone thinks it is not right.

But stopping is not the problem. I know this because it was very very bad when the car did not stop.

It sounds like we need a video.

Briefly, the key is:
1) Come up to the stop sign without slowing prematurely.
2) Smoothly with minimal jerk, come to a brisk stop, preferably without brake use. Though I would be fine with a setting that allowed brisk stops which required friction brakes.
3) Go immediately when it is your turn. Apply firm acceleration while keeping jerk to a minimum. Do not hesitate. If you are going, you are going. Do not collide with other vehicles who may have gone prematurely.

 

[Mardak]

Are you talking about at the 21:48 mark?

Sorry, I was referring to where he was getting onto the highway at 17:25, but there was some confusion about which lane to be in. Obviously illegal right on red isn't good and same behavior as before.

 

[powertoold]

Yeah, don’t be too slow at stop signs! It’s very annoying to people behind you.

V11.3.1 seems to be too slow here, complete standstill at 0mph:

 

[kabin]

I thought HW3 wasn’t enough ? Ok

We'll see soon enough but I wouldn't want to base it on a sped-up video in the wee hours of the morning with no traffic.

 

[Mardak]

I experience impatience / rage / honking from the behind car all the time in SF if I'm too slow

Whenever we travel to the SF Bay Area, it seems like most people are in a rush to get somewhere sometimes literally 1 second earlier. FSD Beta's driving profile affecting follow distance seems to go from 1 second with Assertive to 2 seconds with Chill. Personally, I've had it on Chill and feel like it follows too closely compared to the old "7" setting. But I'm sure many will be annoyed by the "large" 1-second gap of Assertive as they would have otherwise driven with half a second gap instead to block out anybody else who also wants to get somewhere half a second earlier.

With 11.x driving on highways, this will become much more obvious for people.

 

[jeremymc7]

Looks like I'll be keeping 25.2 for a while, complete stop in middle of road here:

I've had that on current beta and prior ones. Doesn't seem enough to halt the release.