FSD Beta v11.x

WilliamG · Apr 1, 2023

So took a quick drive on the FSDb 11.3.4 update. There's certainly been some improvements over the last V10 beta, but also, some major WTFs. Some of this stuff is so basic it's bewildering. Like, say, for example, you're coming up to a stop sign and need to turn right, maybe don't cross over into the bicycle lane just to get closer to the right of the road, before coming to a stop, and then turning right. Seriously, how is this basic stuff missed? This isn't even "Oh we need to train the fleet" levels of bullshit. It's just basic lane reading and the lane literally has the bicycle picture painted on it, and the car even SEES it and SHOWS it on the screen, and then decides to sit in that small lane. Just... there are no words, especially when in Seattle these bicycle lanes are everywhere.

jebinc · Apr 1, 2023

WilliamG said:
So took a quick drive on the FSDb 11.3.4 update. There's certainly been some improvements over the last V10 beta, but also, some major WTFs. Some of this stuff is so basic it's bewildering. Like, say, for example, you're coming up to a stop sign and need to turn right, maybe don't cross over into the bicycle lane just to get closer to the right of the road, before coming to a stop, and then turning right. Seriously, how is this basic stuff missed? This isn't even "Oh we need to train the fleet" levels of bullshit. It's just basic lane reading and the lane literally has the bicycle picture painted on it, and the car even SEES it and SHOWS it on the screen, and then decides to sit in that small lane. Just... there are no words, especially when in Seattle these bicycle lanes are everywhere.

Similar idiotic experience posted earlier; replace “bicycle lane” with “clearly delineated shoulder”.

TK211X · Apr 1, 2023

Waiting patiently for another wave of 11.3.5 (2022.45.14) to drop before Monday.

NathanielHrnblwr · Apr 1, 2023

Iain said:
still waiting…I’m officially ready for an update.

same. no love for north county sd

AlanSubie4Life · Apr 1, 2023

WilliamG said:
Like, say, for example, you're coming up to a stop sign and need to turn right, maybe don't cross over into the bicycle lane just to get closer to the right of the road,

Totally different situation, but finally the car gets in the bicycle lane like it should when getting off a busy road to residential neighborhood for me now.

Point being whether to enter and use the bicycle lane definitely depends. In your case it doesn’t make sense it sounds like. But plenty of stop signs where it would (and of course it is legal to use the bike lane as well).

So pretty basic but not super basic. I don’t even know how to describe the exact situations where it would make sense to grab the bicycle lane. So maybe some trickiness.

Certain tons of dumb stuff still in 11. It literally has no idea how to enter right or left turn lanes (with intervening Nike lanes in particular) properly, for example! Or use the entire road on such turns. Instead it panics, especially on right turns, and gets over way too late, rather than getting into the turn lane as soon as it appears like a normal person.

A seemingly very basic maneuver which it simply cannot reliably perform.

gsmith123 · Apr 1, 2023

Oh no! Now we're gonna have a week of discussion about if cars are supposed to drive in the bike lane or not when making a right turn over a bike lane.

The "use the bike lane" argument is the car needs to pass over the bike lane, and by occupying it they prevent bikes from coming up alongside them on the right. Hard humans to see and easy to "right hook" the bike and hit them.

The counter argument is the lane is for bikes and cars should never enter it (and that bikes in the bike lane going straight have priority over a car making a right turn).

AlanSubie4Life · Apr 1, 2023

gsmith123 said:
The counter argument is the lane is for bikes and cars should never enter it (and that bikes in the bike lane going straight have priority over a car making a right turn).

No need for pages of discussion. You should only do what is legal! Follow the law.

In my state, it is legal to drive in the bike lane for 200 feet before a turn, and it is an extremely good idea when exiting Spring Canyon onto Sunset Ridge, dramatically improving safety and traffic flow. The car finally now does it rather than slowing down to 15mph on a street with 60mph traffic (unenforceable limit of 45mph). It is illegal to hit bicyclists in this bike lane (also in general).

Section 6: Navigating the Roads - California DMV

Traffic Lanes A traffic lane is a section of road for a single line of traffic. Lane Markings Lane markings on road surfaces help drivers know which part of the road to use and understand traffic rules. Single Solid Yellow Line A single solid yellow line marks the center of a road with two-way...

www.dmv.ca.gov

What the car cannot apparently do properly currently is enter a turn lane while crossing a bike lane. This is apparently extremely difficult to do properly.

swedge · Apr 2, 2023

AlanSubie4Life said:
No need for pages of discussion. You should only do what is legal! Follow the law.

In my state, it is legal to drive in the bike lane for 200 feet before a turn, and it is an extremely good idea when exiting Spring Canyon onto Sunset Ridge, dramatically improving safety and traffic flow. The car finally now does it rather than slowing down to 15mph on a street with 60mph traffic (unenforceable limit of 45mph). It is illegal to hit bicyclists in this lane.

Section 6: Navigating the Roads - California DMV

Traffic Lanes A traffic lane is a section of road for a single line of traffic. Lane Markings Lane markings on road surfaces help drivers know which part of the road to use and understand traffic rules. Single Solid Yellow Line A single solid yellow line marks the center of a road with two-way...

www.dmv.ca.gov

What the car cannot apparently do properly currently is enter a turn lane while crossing a bike lane. This is apparently extremely difficult to do properly.

In the SF Bay Area, we often see a solid white line separating bike lanes from car lanes, giving way to broken white lines as intersections are approached, indicating a shared area. I think the idea is that cars go faster that bikes, and bikes can slow down if needed. So this is like a lane change into a narrow lane. But I have yet to see what FSD does if it wants to turn right when a bike is nearby... Maybe Dan O'Dowd can loan us a mannequin on a bike to test this scenario... ;-) Just kidding. I am leery of testing these blind-spot and being-passed-on-the-right situations, but I suspect the two backward looking cams will keep us out of trouble.

PACEMD · Apr 2, 2023

valem said:
She sees the mailman a-comin'
He's drivin' up her street
And she ain't had a letter
Since she can't remember when they'd meet
She's stuck in her apartment
And time just seems to stall
But that mailman keeps a-comin'
Bringing junk mail, bills, and all.

He's just the postman.......

jtsai1031 · Apr 2, 2023

like this post if you are still stuck on 10.69 like i am

Rikster · Apr 2, 2023

Finally received 11.3.4 last night around 9 pm, along with the big wave that got pushed out! Sad to see many people are still stuck on 10.69! I thought I'd be the last one, but I guess not...

Went for a drive to try it out, and found lots to like in the new version. It seemed a bit smoother and polished overall, though still made some "rookie mistakes" that had me disengaging to avoid problems. One thing I loved about this update was that the nags have been reduced dramatically. Before, it seemed like I was constantly having to torque the yoke to respond to the nags, but last night, as long as I was looking straight ahead, the nags were almost non-existent, even if I took my hands off the yoke for an extended time (on nice clear straight sections where I felt fairly safe doing so). That alone made my drive WAY more enjoyable!

For some reason, I didn't get the pop up asking if I wanted to leave the voice memo for Tesla after disengagements. I definitely had to disengage several times, and no pop up? Maybe Tesla is already tired of the inane comments people are making?

Overall, a good first drive, and nice progress from 10.69.

Reddy Kilowatt · Apr 2, 2023

bug report 11.3.3

My car is continuously running red lights on large X type intersections. The car shows the red lights on the IC and stops. But as soon as traffic clears the car proceeds through the red light. It is treating the light as a flashing red light. (Stop and proceed). Straight or left turn it does it with all lights red .

This has happened six times this week the first two were at extreme sun set with sun in camera eyes. I wrote those off because of sun. Yesterday in light rain did it again. The morning however conditions were great. I pulled up to a red light and stopped, then the car took off. No other cars were around. I stopped backed up the car two more times and it immediately did it again. Have dash came video saved.

The signals are rigid mast arm mounts so they’re not flapping in the wind. But they are mounted farther away from the stop bar than normal. Is this outside the “action” range of beta as apposed to visrange.

A large X intersection is a cross over of two large divided highways that use traffic lights instead of clover leaf interchange.

Tesla I hope you’re reading , I sent bug report but don’t have the FSD email at work with me.

mtbwalt · Apr 2, 2023

Had a generally improved first city streets drive in an NC city last night on 11.3.4.

In general, the car is very noticeably smoother with turns, cruising, and anticipating where it will need to go. Compared to when I got the vehicle 14 months ago, the FSD progress is substantial.

I disengaged twice on my 10 mile route.

First was an unusual red light situation. An oblique road feeds into a larger road at a standard intersection. However there is some curvature in the oblique road I was on about 20 before the intersection. Some traffic engineer must have recently decided to place a warning red light (with no stop line) at the start of the curvature as a supplement warning, in addition to the larger set of red lights at the intersection itself. Well, 11.3.4 was the only car and decided to stop at the new warning red light rather than at the marked intersection stop point (understandable, but not how traffic flows here). So I gently accelerated to get it to the actual stop point. 11.3.4 took this as my permission to Leeroy Jenkins the entire red light and tried to speed into a left on red. Disengage. Presumably it thought that my accelerator signal was a “turn right on red” as the terminal curvature is to the right, and it assumed the bank of red lights it tried to left turn through did not apply to it. Admittedly, this intersection is non-standard due to the new warning red light; it used to have no problem here prior to the new placement of the supplementary red light. IMO a “traffic light ahead” sign would have been a better way to warn drivers rather than a “don’t really stop here” red light.

The second was a one lane traffic circle I was approaching. There was a car with right of way in the circle and 11.3.4 was approaching at speed. I just could not let it make the call and disengaged. The other car ended up exiting the circle right before me (no blinker) so there would have been no accident either way, but 11.3.4 failed to convince me that it was intending to yield. Maybe it would have yielded, but it was coming in hotter than I would have (as it usually does at circles). IMO there is room for improvement at small traffic circles, FSD beta usually comes in too hot which is distressing for both the Tesla driver and the driver already in the circle.

archae86 · Apr 2, 2023

WilliamG said:
So took a quick drive on the FSDb 11.3.4 update. There's certainly been some improvements over the last V10 beta, but also, some major WTFs. Some of this stuff is so basic it's bewildering. Like, say, for example, you're coming up to a stop sign and need to turn right, maybe don't cross over into the bicycle lane just to get closer to the right of the road, before coming to a stop, and then turning right. Seriously, how is this basic stuff missed? This isn't even "Oh we need to train the fleet" levels of bullshit. It's just basic lane reading and the lane literally has the bicycle picture painted on it, and the car even SEES it and SHOWS it on the screen, and then decides to sit in that small lane. Just... there are no words, especially when in Seattle these bicycle lanes are everywhere.

Well, it may be basic to you, but it is contrary to city code here in Albuquerque to take the view that you do.
To quote:
§ 8-3-3-12 MOTORIST TURNING ACROSS BICYCLE LANE.
(A) Whenever a motorist is turning across a bicycle lane or path, such motorist shall maintain a
proper lookout for bicyclists and shall yield the right-of-way to any bicyclist traveling in a
bicycle lane or path and, prior to turning right, shall merge, if practicable, into the bicycle lane to
his right, if any, before the start of the turning movement.

aronth5 · Apr 2, 2023

mtbwalt said:
IMO there is room for improvement at small traffic circles, FSD beta usually comes in too hot which is distressing for both the Tesla driver and the driver already in the circle.

Improvement is needed in pretty much at all size roundabouts. My car typically treats the yield sign at the rotary as a stop sign whether there is any traffic in the roundabout or not. Not good with anyone behind you expecting you to cruise thru at 20mph.

90% of my interventions are now pushing thru intersections with the accelerator.

tivoboy · Apr 2, 2023

tivoboy said:
Ditto.. O.1G on 44.30.10 getting 45.13 now

Start to finish only took 45 min from notiicarion of start to notification of completion. As sort of typical there was a pause at 60% that took a large part of the last 20 to continue.

JB47394 · Apr 2, 2023

Reddy Kilowatt said:
My car is continuously running red lights on large X type intersections.

What intersections are these? I'm a bit north of you and I might just drive down tonight and see if I can duplicate what you've seen.

Reddy Kilowatt · Apr 2, 2023

JB

Loudon county parkway at RT 7 northbound to westbound 7
Also

Willard road WB to Rt 28 SB

Left turn both cases

JulienW · Apr 2, 2023

jtsai1031 said:
like this post if you are still stuck on 10.69 like i am

Irony is Liking a post about being near the bottom of the barrel.

I'm checking to see if Tesla thinks my last name is Zznni.

WilliamG · Apr 2, 2023

archae86 said:
Well, it may be basic to you, but it is contrary to city code here in Albuquerque to take the view that you do.
To quote:
§ 8-3-3-12 MOTORIST TURNING ACROSS BICYCLE LANE.
(A) Whenever a motorist is turning across a bicycle lane or path, such motorist shall maintain a
proper lookout for bicyclists and shall yield the right-of-way to any bicyclist traveling in a
bicycle lane or path and, prior to turning right, shall merge, if practicable, into the bicycle lane to
his right, if any, before the start of the turning movement.

It’s the same here in Seattle, actually.

Road Rules – Turning Right Across a Bike Lane « Pinehurst Seattle

www.pinehurstseattle.org

I realize I made a mistake here but actually it’s the idiotic road markings in Seattle that cause a problem in understanding.

“On a national level, the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices encourages road designers to use dotted lines on bike lanes as they near intersections so drivers know they can move into the bike lane prior to the intersection.”

Does Seattle do that? Lol. Yeah right…

In reality, I would be subject to so much abuse if I covered that bike lane because guaranteed most cyclists would be pissed… Funny how rules of the road work, eh?

FSD Beta v11.x

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