FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[willow_hiller]

...and anecdotal and different almost every time on the same drive.

Yup. So you might as well be on the most recent version of the rollercoaster.

 

[D Good]

Just got 11.3.6 from .3.4

 

[tivoboy]

Just got 11.3.6 from .3.4

We’re sorry to hear that. ;-)

 

[VanFriscia]

I can't say I've noticed any appreciable difference between 3.3 and 3.6, so I'm surprised to hear so many saying it's significantly worse. The bug fix point patches rarely have any noticeable changes, in my experience.

 

[aronth5]

I can't say I've noticed any appreciable difference between 3.3 and 3.6, so I'm surprised to hear so many saying it's significantly worse. The bug fix point patches rarely have any noticeable changes, in my experience.

I also went from 3.3 to 3.6 and agree with many others that this new version is worse. More lane selection errors and increased jerkiness are the 2 differences I've noticed the most. The hesitation and jerkiness with cars behind me have adversely affect many of my drives. I have yet to notice any improvements.

 

[archae86]

My drive with 11.3.6 last night included a massive improvement in a difficult exit that all previous versions have handled very badly. While you might not have complimented a teenager on the full degree of smoothness and perfectly appropriate path, it was so much better than any of the dozens of times I've run this location on FSDb as to make me wonder just what had gotten it to behave so much better.

The location is the northbound exit from I-25 in Albuquerque making one's way to eastbound Paseo del Norte. The intersection design stinks and one must make one's way across a couple of lanes of traffic to fit into a single lane which then immediately broadens to three lanes. Until now FSDb has generally waited so long even to attempt to get into the one and only lane that it has crossed double lines to get there using abrupt turning. Adding insult to injury it often then crosses on over to the rightmost of the three waiting lanes. I've generally disengaged before even approaching unless there was zero potentially conflicting traffic, but as I usually travel this one a 9:30 p.m. once a week, I've had lots of closely observed trials.

The folks who report worsening with 11.3.6 seem deaf to reports of others who report improvement. I'm among the net overall improvement camp.

 

[kabin]

I can't say I've noticed any appreciable difference between 3.3 and 3.6, so I'm surprised to hear so many saying it's significantly worse. The bug fix point patches rarely have any noticeable changes, in my experience.

Yep. Maybe the biggest issue is not seeing bugs fixed after a half dozen bug fix releases. But there might be a few things that stand out. Nags might be more frequent on surface streets. 4 way stops might be worse. At times braking is smoother and other times it remains excessive/uncomfortable. Overall there seems to be an attempt to hide issues by slowing the system response and thereby require more frequent driver input or just be a bigger roadway nuisance.

 

[kabin]

The folks who report worsening with 11.3.6 seem deaf to reports of others who report improvement. I'm among the net overall improvement camp.

Yep, it probably works both ways. I bet most feel their input should be the standard for FSDb.

 

[jabloomf1230]

Yep. Maybe the biggest issue is not seeing bugs fixed after a half dozen bug fix releases. But there might be a few things that stand out. Nags might be more frequent on surface streets. 4 way stops might be worse. Overall there seems to be an attempt to hide issues by slowing the system response and thereby require more frequent driver input or just be a bigger roadway nuisance.

The one difference that I've noticed is that the display of the FSD gray wheel symbol is now sporadic. I commonly have to play Whack-a-mole with the right stalk as the symbol would flicker on and off for certain roads. The lack of permanence for the minimal lane change setting between drives is also annoying.

 

[Knightshade]

FWIW you can add me to the 11.6 is much worse than 11.3 (or any 10.69 version) on local roads....jerky turns, weird hesitations, at least 2 cases of it stopping 10+ feet before an actual stop sign it used to handle well, bad lane selection, etc...11.3 (and even the last 10.69) I'd get a decent number of 0 or 1 intervention trips, and a really bad one would be maybe 2 or 3... now I'm getting 3-5 interventions per trip on largely the same routes and even when I let it do its thing because no cars are around it's subjectively worse (the jerky turns)

 

[JB47394]

The one difference that I've noticed is that the display of the FSD gray wheel symbol is now sporadic. I commonly have to play Whack-a-mole with the right stalk as the symbol would flicker on and off for certain roads. The lack of permanence for the minimal lane change setting between drives is also annoying.

Interestingly, I know of no means to report a problem trying to engage FSDb. I disengaged on a road where I have problems with reengaging just so I could report that I was testing a problem with reengaging. I couldn't reengage, and I hope the car's data somehow communicated that.

I know that I cannot reengage based on the width of the roadway on that road, but I also got the whack-a-mole game on a four lane 45 mph roadway with a center median. There's tons of room, but the car didn't want to engage. I'll have to keep an eye on when the icon appears and see if I can correlate it to the conditions around me.

 

[jj3884]

Well got 11.3.6 this morning too. Haven't driven it yet.

Honestly still not impressed with City Driving so not expecting much. It's hitting my requirements for the most part for Highway though.

At this point the biggest quality of life improvement would be getting us on the 2023 code train to fix bugs there

 

[kabin]

Speaking of turns. I had a dangerous left turn in an intersection where FSDb chose to drive over the double yellow lines and uncomfortably close to a car waiting to make a left turn. I can't recall that happening in prior releases. I disengaged but didn't get the verbal message prompt.

 

[Porkalletta]

I had an impressive failure today on 11.3.6. It stopped at a stop sign to make a right turn. This is the road that I take from my house daily to enter the main highway (55 mph). The car proclaimed "creeping for visibility", then luckily out the corner of my eye, I saw a car moving at the 55 mph to my left. Unfortunately, FSDb decided to make the turn anyway, which would have caused the other car to slam on the brakes. I disengaged before my car could make the turn.

Now all that isn't too exciting, except that the cross traffic vehicle was a county sheriff.

 

[Porkalletta]

I had an impressive failure today on 11.3.6. It stopped at a stop sign to make a right turn. This is the road that I take from my house daily to enter the main highway (55 mph). The car proclaimed "creeping for visibility", then luckily out the corner of my eye, I saw a car moving at the 55 mph to my left. Unfortunately, FSDb decided to make the turn anyway, which would have caused the other car to slam on the brakes. I disengaged before my car could make the turn.

Now all that isn't too exciting, except that the cross traffic vehicle was a county sheriff.

 

[Dennisis]

Be glad when this is fixed: Makes a RH turn onto the rightmost lane which turns into a well marked right turn only lane. Rather than moving to the LH lane and continuing straight it stays in the right turn only lane 'til it ends and then brakes, unsure where to go, does the "what do I do?" dance and I have to take over.

 

[Porkalletta]

FWIW you can add me to the 11.6 is much worse than 11.3 (or any 10.69 version) on local roads....jerky turns, weird hesitations, at least 2 cases of it stopping 10+ feet before an actual stop sign it used to handle well, bad lane selection, etc...11.3 (and even the last 10.69) I'd get a decent number of 0 or 1 intervention trips, and a really bad one would be maybe 2 or 3... now I'm getting 3-5 interventions per trip on largely the same routes and even when I let it do its thing because no cars are around it's subjectively worse (the jerky turns)

If it is this difficult to program factual input someone please let us know how do you program intuition? Wait for AI?

 

[jebinc]

Speaking of turns. I had a dangerous left turn in an intersection where FSDb chose to drive over the double yellow lines and uncomfortably close to a car waiting to make a left turn. I can't recall that happening in prior releases. I disengaged but didn't get the verbal message prompt.

11.3.4 crossed over double yellow centerline frequently for me, before Inturned off FSDj in the UI.

 

[Twiglett]

Also got 11.3.6 and am dreading my weekly 55 mile country road/fast divided highway drive this weekend.
It's slowly got down to averaging <1 disengagement per mile, is about 30-40 disengagements for the 55 mile trip now. That is significantly better than earlier versions, but the disengagement rates aren't falling as fast as the implied performance increases the release notes would suggest.
It does seem that for each new thing it does well, it introduces new failures while not fixing any old failures.
Its been stopping for flashing yellow warning signs since 10.4.x

 

[kriskros91]

I think before V11 became wide release most of us were expecting either a neutral or slight improvement on city streets and a general regression on the highway.

My experience on 11.3.3 has been basically like that. Some improvements mostly towards comfort when driving on highway in a straight path and when making lane changes. Those are so much smoother and humanlike it is almost scary.

But the regressions are in highway exit behavior and city streets. I feel like the lack of control on highways is a bit annoying and it often keeps the signal on forever when approaching a busy exit lane on the highway but keeps passing cars and doesn't seem to assert itself in getting over. I had to disengage a few times on a 50 mile round trip in Dallas yesterday which I could do pretty easily on 10.69 with lane change confirmation on in 10.69.

I think having to use my stalks to cancel a lane change is also annoying. Before you could get away with clicking the blue part of the nav to cancel a turn but that isn't really as effective now.

I think V11 over time will get loads better in 3-12 months. If I could have one wish I would want V11 to merge with production builds and to be ahead of them so we get all those features along with everyone else. I don't really like having to sacrifice quality of life features for the sake of being an FSD beta tester.