FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[CMTwinDad]

I’m on regular 2023.12.9, with an FSD subscription that I just signed up for a few days ago. Does this new development mean I should expect the FSD beta switch to no longer be grayed-out and selectable soon?

 

[uscbucsfan]

I’m on regular 2023.12.9, with an FSD subscription that I just signed up for a few days ago. Does this new development mean I should expect the FSD beta switch to no longer be grayed-out and selectable soon?

From what others are saying, the switch was never not greyed out. They just received 2023.12.10 when it was their turn. It comes in waves.

 

[JHCCAZ]

From what others are saying, the switch was never not greyed out. They just received 2023.12.10 when it was their turn. It comes in waves.

Right. But some people are getting 2023.12.10 and the beta switch is still disabled, while for others it seems to be enabled immediately. Still trying to understand this in the other thread, and I wondered if it has to do with a minimum number of regular FSD or autopilot miles needed first, as has been theorized in the past.

This should clear up as more installation reports come in today.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Right. But some people are getting 2023.12.10 and the beta switch is still disabled, while for others it seems to be enabled immediately. Still trying to understand this in the other thread, and I wondered if it has to do with a minimum number of regular FSD or autopilot miles needed first, as has been theorized in the past.

This should clear up as more installation reports come in today.

Almost all the people on FB said they never had an opt in to Beta option, but they are using it now.

I agree we need to wait longer as some of it could be user error.

 

[sleepydoc]

Drove on a relatively narrow parkway this morning. FSD (11.3.6) had no problems. the posted speed limit was only 20 MPH so it wasn't going fast but it stayed center left, moving further to the left when an oncoming car approached.

I wonder if part of the problem described above arises from cars parked along the side combined with FSDs desire to give a wider birth. The road I took this morning had no cars, simply a curb which is generally 'safer' to hug than a line of cars.

 

[fasteddie7]

This is a weird one. Main branch is ahead of 23.7.5 but beta is behind 4.1 with 3.6. Question is does it update the main and downgrade FSDb or does 4.2 come with a new branch number below the new main build for two FSDb branches a FSD beta, beta? Lolol

 

[uscbucsfan]

This is a weird one. Main branch is ahead of 23.7.5 but beta is behind 4.1 with 3.6. Question is does it update the main and downgrade FSDb or does 4.2 come with a new branch number below the new main build for two FSDb branches a FSD beta, beta? Lolol

It won't downgrade, for sure.

 

[tivoboy]

It doesn’t seem a positive that Tesla is choosing to add more FSDb users on the 11.3.6 - even with the UI/UX upgrades, rather than simply move a 11.4.2+ forward.

 

[zazim]

It seems pretty clear than any future updates from 3.6 will be on the 2023.12.10 branch or higher. I like this solution. It takes pressure off of having to release a 4.2 (or higher) version in order to add the 2023 cars into the FSD beta.

 

[YNoVA]

I subscribed to FSD and immediately downloaded 2023.12.10

 

[MrFusion4]

I subscribed to FSD and immediately downloaded 2023.12.10

wow and you've never been a beta tester before? mine is greyed out

 

[MarcG]

Would love to get this 2023.12.10 update, even if my FSDb version would stay the same.

We’re almost halfway through the year and I’m still on a 2022 version (like most others who currently have FSDb).

Do we think Tesla will migrate us all to this branch shortly, or will this be just to open up FSDb to new users?

 

[MP3Mike]

Would love to get this 2023.12.10 update, even if my FSDb version would stay the same.

We’re almost halfway through the year and I’m still on a 2022 version (like most others who currently have FSDb).

Do we think Tesla will migrate us all to this branch shortly, or will this be just to open up FSDb to new users?

My guess is that 2023.12.10 is to get FSDb in the hands of new owners so that: 1) they stop complaining about not getting the beta and 2) they can recognize a majority of the FSD revenues.

At the same time I think that FSDb 11.4.x will likely stay on the 2023.7.x build.

Maybe they will merge the two paths with FSDb 11.5.x in 2023.14+ and get everybody on the same track again. (I wonder if ones things are merged if the vehicles with USS will get a portion of the Tesla Vision that will show curbs better, especially on the side, while still using the USS for most of the front/rear detection...)

 

[uscbucsfan]

At the same time I think that FSDb 11.4.x will likely stay on the 2023.7.x build.

Why do you think this is likely?

11.4 was 2023.6.15, 11.4.1 is 2023.7.5. I think it's more likely we see 11.4.2/3 at 2023.12.X.

This isn't the first time revisions have jumped up on base software. 10.69 did the same.

 

[zazim]

My guess is that 2023.12.10 is to get FSDb in the hands of new owners so that: 1) they stop complaining about not getting the beta and 2) they can recognize a majority of the FSD revenues.

At the same time I think that FSDb 11.4.x will likely stay on the 2023.7.x build.

Maybe they will merge the two paths with FSDb 11.5.x in 2023.14+ and get everybody on the same track again. (I wonder if ones things are merged if the vehicles with USS will get a portion of the Tesla Vision that will show curbs better, especially on the side, while still using the USS for most of the front/rear detection...)

It is possible that the limited few that already have 11.4.1 will get additional releases of 11.4.x that are unavailable to the 11.3.6 folks. But it would make no sense to have a widespread upgrade from 11.3.6 to 2023.7.5. That is a dead end.

 

[vamike]

It seems pretty clear than any future updates from 3.6 will be on the 2023.12.10 branch or higher. I like this solution. It takes pressure off of having to release a 4.2 (or higher) version in order to add the 2023 cars into the FSD beta.

Makes sense to me that we'd see a "stable" FSDb version attached to the latest firmware, while new FSDb versions (call them "experimental") are vetted on a parallel track. Other do this. Axis Camera's have their Long-Term Support Firmware (stable version) and Active Firmware (experimental). Nvidia has Studio drivers (stable) vs Game Ready drivers (experimental). In both cases, once an "experimental" version proves itself, it becomes the next "stable " version.

 

[jebinc]

wow and you've never been a beta tester before? mine is greyed out

Perhaps there is a secret safety score algorithm running in the background and yours is greyed out because of a very low and undisclosed safety score.

 

[aronth5]

Why do you think this is likely?

11.4 was 2023.6.15, 11.4.1 is 2023.7.5. I think it's more likely we see 11.4.2/3 at 2023.12.X.

This isn't the first time revisions have jumped up on base software. 10.69 did the same.

I'd like to see this happen but an doubtful. Elon has previously mentioned the 12.x FSD upgrade as several months out and then consider that was Elon time.
Since the problem Chuck Cook documented was called out by Elon and that the problem is clearly a potential safety issue I'd expect 11.4.2/3 to come out before a 12.x FSD version.

My guess is the recent update was done for a couple of reasons. First, Tesla can begin to recognize some serious FSD revenue which the bean counters like and second having new car owners waiting for FSD is a very bad look and I suspect affects the FSD take rate.

 

[uscbucsfan]

I'd like to see this happen but an doubtful. Elon has previously mentioned the 12.x FSD upgrade as several months out and then consider that was Elon time.
Since the problem Chuck Cook documented was called out by Elon and that the problem is clearly a potential safety issue I'd expect 11.4.2/3 to come out before a 12.x FSD version.

My guess is the recent update was done for a couple of reasons. First, Tesla can begin to recognize some serious FSD revenue which the bean counters like and second having new car owners waiting for FSD is a very bad look and I suspect affects the FSD take rate.

You are getting confused by FSD 12.X and 2023.12.X

 

[jj3884]

Sigh, I'll take the update, to finally get things in 2023.

Worthwhile doing, probably more so so they can offer that trial/trials to more people to try FSD