FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[rlsd]

I am prepared to rear end Mercedes cars on the road.

Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz, my friends all have Teslas...

www.theregister.com

 

[Tronguy]

Sheesh. Tesla says its Beta. They put that phrase in there, "The car will do the wrong thing at the worst time." And, in my experience, it has done the wrong thing at the worst time. As we speak, it's doing Wrong on Worst at a far lower rate than, say, August of last year; but it tried running a red light a few days back and has had the wrong kind of fun at on-ramps.

So: There might be people around here arguing about Just How Functional Is That Beta, Anyway, but the actual functionality is.. it's a Beta. It's got bugs. Any insinuations to the contrary are not supported by the facts.

Now, will it get bug free in the future? Our illustrious CEO of Tesla has His Aspirations, but even he admits he's had them for a time. Some people run around here screaming, "Never!". Others are less bloody minded. The appropriate answer is, "We'll see."

 

[zoomer0056]

I am prepared to rear end Mercedes cars on the road.

Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz, my friends all have Teslas...

www.theregister.com

Jeeze ... article says its a blow to Tesla in Teslas former home state. It says max speed is 40mph and is allowed on highways including hwy 15 between LA and Las Vegas. People travel 80mph on that highway but MB is only gonna go 40mph, sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Yeah, a big blow to Tesla.

 

[aronth5]

Drove 150 highway miles today. (2 drives). Rained most of each trip and I was pleasantly surprised how well the wipers worked.
Wipers did a great job adjusting speeds as needed, far surpassing what the wipers have done on earlier builds. This isn't the first time I've noticed this on v11.4.2 but after such variable rain conditions the improvement was very evident.

FSD in the highway was excellent. Picked a lane and enabled minimal lane changes. With all the rain this approach just made the most sense.

Now Tesla just needs to make the same improvement on high/low beam decisions.

 

[rlsd]

Jeeze ... article says its a blow to Tesla in Teslas former home state. It says max speed is 40mph and is allowed on highways including hwy 15 between LA and Las Vegas. People travel 80mph on that highway but MB is only gonna go 40mph, sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Yeah, a big blow to Tesla.

You know journalists these days, don't you?

 

[Iain]

I second by second played the video.

25:41 - 35mph (speed limit)
25:42 - 34
25:43 - 33
25:44 - 31
25:45 - 28
25:46 - 25, then 21 and turn signal comes on at entrance to turn lane
25:47 - 16 Not fully in turn lane
25:48 - 11 Not fully in turn lane
25:49 - 9 Near collision, then 7 and finally fully in turn lane
25:50 - 4 at end of turn lane
25:51 - 0 at end of turn lane
starts creeping
NINE seconds later....
26:00 - 0 behind lead car in turn lane.

So the car decelerated 10 mph before its turn signal came on, and then came close to a full stop before turning into the turn lane. Turn signal to near collision was 3 sec (so the car that nearly hit it was NOT tailgating) and anyone following would never expect the car to come to an almost complete stop, 26mph below the speed limit, when there was room for the car to leave the thru-lane.

Cars further behind would have also had to slow as dramatically for the erratic behaviour of the Tesla, as the brake-checking chain reaction played out.

The near collision was 100% caused by the unexpected behaviour of the tesla. The tesla caused the situation and it was the actions of the drivers behind, swerving around the obstacle unnecessarily blocking part of their lane that robbed a body shop of some work.

To compound all this misbehaviour, it then took another 11 seconds before anyone else could enter the turn lane without blocking the straight thru lane (which was a green light so anyone after the Tesla wanting to turn left would have been blocking thru-traffic.)

Sure, had the turn lane had other cars in it the tesla would have been sitting there, but all traffic would be aware of why no more cars could fit in the turn lane. No-one could reasonably expect or comprehend why the tesla basically parked the car at the end of the turn lane.

You must live in an area with perfect drivers. I am behind someone every day that does stuff far more dangerous than an inconsiderate slowdown. If the Tesla slowed too slowly, that is also the responsibility of the driver following. Yes, we all want the car to do better in EVERY situation, but it doesn't have to be perfect, just better than most idiots on the road.

 

[jebinc]

Sheesh. Tesla says its Beta. They put that phrase in there, "The car will do the wrong thing at the worst time." And, in my experience, it has done the wrong thing at the worst time. As we speak, it's doing Wrong on Worst at a far lower rate than, say, August of last year; but it tried running a red light a few days back and has had the wrong kind of fun at on-ramps.

So: There might be people around here arguing about Just How Functional Is That Beta, Anyway, but the actual functionality is.. it's a Beta. It's got bugs. Any insinuations to the contrary are not supported by the facts.

Now, will it get bug free in the future? Our illustrious CEO of Tesla has His Aspirations, but even he admits he's had them for a time. Some people run around here screaming, "Never!". Others are less bloody minded. The appropriate answer is, "We'll see."

Sheesh. You missed one group…. Those that run their mouth (fingers) off in blind love. FSD is godly and Elon is a Demigod.

 

[Z_Lynx]

Saw that - but does it actually run or stop if you don't intervene?

It would run the sign if I did not intervene.

I dropped the speed from 25 to 15mph in this string of 11.3.6 and 11.4.2 cases. All maintained the full 15 mph (except one that looked to be starting to gray out at 12 mph) until I intervened to prevent entering the road. An intervention gives you the opportunity to report it.

=> If you look at the wide blue line, it is a bold blue, there is no stop line with accompanying chevron (?) to indicate where it intended to stop. In the past I let it actually run the sign a few times but figured this was unwise.

Below is a rare successful stop back in April. The blue line is faint. Speed is 1mph.
Compare the location of this stop with the clips above and I think you will agree that if it was going the full 15mph (had been dialed down to 15mph) at about the same location, the intent was to run the sign vs drop 15mph in 5' or less.

EDIT: one of my fears is that it will not recognize oncoming traffic from the left as cross traffic and could assume vehicles will turn onto the small side road and not cross my path. This would be disastrous for someone unfamiliar with its failures at this stop sign.

 

[sleepydoc]

Jeeze ... article says its a blow to Tesla in Teslas former home state. It says max speed is 40mph and is allowed on highways including hwy 15 between LA and Las Vegas. People travel 80mph on that highway but MB is only gonna go 40mph, sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Yeah, a big blow to Tesla.

That's been discussed ad nauseam in another thread. They're rolling out 'level 3' under very limited circumstances - limited access highways only, only up to 40 MPH. No lane changes. Essentially they will handle stop and go in a single lane. The significance is that it's level 3 so the driver can truly stop paying attention and reportedly MB accepts liability for accidents that occur when the system is driving.

In terms of capabilities, I think Tesla could have done something like this quite some time ago but chose not to. The capabilities of FSD are far beyond what MB is currently offering, but also far less polished in off-highway circumstances.

 

[Knightshade]

That's been discussed ad nauseam in another thread. They're rolling out 'level 3' under very limited circumstances - limited access highways only, only up to 40 MPH. No lane changes. Essentially they will handle stop and go in a single lane. The significance is that it's level 3 so the driver can truly stop paying attention and reportedly MB accepts liability for accidents that occur when the system is driving.

Exactly. If there's traffic and you're doing 40 or less, you are legally free to read a book, watch a movie, mess with your phone, etc because the car- not the human- is driving.

If traffic clears up the car does not just keep doing 40.... It alerts the driver they need to take over in the next 10 seconds, then when it hits 40 it KEEPS accelerating just like autopilot would to whatever the relevant highway speed is, but now it's just L2 ADAS and the human is driving.

In terms of capabilities, I think Tesla could have done something like this quite some time ago but chose not to. The capabilities of FSD are far beyond what MB is currently offering, but also far less polished in off-highway circumstances.

The difference is Mercedes believes their system is good enough to, under these limited circumstances, take responsibility for the entire driving task including liability. Nobody else, Tesla includes, appears to believe that about their own systems.

 

[powertoold]

This is the exact merging situation many people complain about. FSDb braked at the last second to get behind the adjacent car:

 

[EVNow]

It would run the sign if I did not intervene.

You never know. You can try it when nobody is around and it’s absolutely safe. I won’t be surprised if it runs or even stops at last second.

 

[jebinc]

You never know. You can try it when nobody is around and it’s absolutely safe. I won’t be surprised if it runs or even stops at last second.

I posted a ran stop sign about two weeks ago, so there are at least two data points.

 

[EVNow]

I posted a ran stop sign about two weeks ago, so there are at least two data points.

Usually FSD runs stop signs when it doesn’t detect them … in this case, it looks like the sign is being detected.

 

[jebinc]

You never know. You can try it when nobody is around and it’s absolutely safe. I won’t be surprised if it runs or even stops at last second.

Re that two week ago episode, I let go all the way to 15’ before the intersection, as there was no cross traffic. Speed limit on the road was 35mph. At 15’ when I disengaged to report, it was still at speed.

 

[Ramphex]

Interesting observation about the Junk. You know that gate it slams the brakes for? It does that even when there’s a car in front and the gate is opening.

They say never go full retard but FSDj……

 

[Ramphex]

On one hand, you state beta is more of an alpha or pre-– alpha software, because of all the defects and then in the next sentence, you complain that Tesla use is beta for software that’s stable and usable. So which is it? Have you ever been in one of the beta programs for iOS? System crashes and data loss are not at all unheard of. Every single person who signs up for FSD beta knows that it’s beta, has been told that it’s beta, and even clicks, except after reading a statement from Tesla saying it can do the worst thing at the worst possible time. If you are using the software, you know this, too, yet you continually complain about the fact that the software is not perfect and call it junk because it’s not perfect. At this point the only conclusion I can make is that you are either illiterate, or simply a troll.

The only difference is…. There’s actually a stable version of iOS and there will never be a stable version of the Junk it’ll forever be “beta”

 

[jebinc]

The only difference is…. There’s actually a stable version of iOS and there will never be a stable version of the Junk it’ll forever be “beta”

Like autopilot, auto wipers, auto headlights and all the other features tagged beta in perpetuity. And lest us not forget, I must be “illiterate or a troll”… with a TMC reaction score of nearly 18,000

This place is amazing. People resorting to insults when they don’t agree with your opinion. Very funny it is @Ramphex

 

[Ramphex]

Many of us live in TMC / Tesla bubble and don't see other forums often enough. I suggest all the #TeamJunk members to start perusing other forums for some realworld comparison.

I don’t care about other forums or other cars. I paid $10k for the Junk on a $90k car and I want some damn less junky results.

 

[kabin]

So far I'm not seeing great results from V11.4.3. Here it cuts off a car during the very first turn. Stop short and creep remains a crap shoot. FSD really needs to stop at the crosswalk for better visibility.