FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[powertoold]

Message on the screen was "Creeping forward for visibility" so suspect the mud was not a factor.

Yes, but I don't think Tesla has programmed any specific message for road conditions, perhaps creeping forward for visibility is their generic message for any uncertain situation

 

[powertoold]

“Junk” turns into “JUNK” with 11.4.4. Just linked in Black Teslas first drive video. Many fails and wildly flailing yoke. Hard to watch. I won’t be installing this version of JUNK. I bet Whole Mars says it’s great - wait for it…. I will be waiting for 11.5….

Other than the slow speed flailing, it was a decent short drive imo. Nothing particularly interesting though, mostly two lane roads with lots of preferential ideas. No safety issues (except tail on train track?), many L2 comfort issues

 

[WilliamG]

It has to be better than 11.4.3 and likely 11.4.2.

 

[dgatwood]

So I'm guessing if I reference 1950's television I might be in a select crowd? What's that girl? FSDb fell down the well?

So you're saying FSDb 11.4.x is a dog?

Right now, I'm trying to decide how long to wait before installing 11.4.4/2023.7.20. I'll definitely be interested to see whether the short-deadline turn fixes will make my drive to work possible. Right now, I have a 100% disengagement rate, because it can't make the left turn shortly after the offramp, and without routing through parking lots, it would be a two-mile, ten-minute detour if I didn't manually intervene. We'll see what happens.

 

[Allx]

FSD 11.4.2 observations. Just took another 500ish mi trip on FSD. A few notes below on the results .

Unrelated to FSD : new charger locations made for almost an hour savings on this road trip (can now leave when charging rate slows down rather than charging to ~80 soc). Awesome progress on chargers. No Bolts blocking magic dock locations but pickups do the pickup thing ….

The good

• “City streets” confident in suburbs/rural towns
• Less phantom breaking
• Quite smooth in roundabouts (suburb). Small nudge on entry and it does its thing smoothly
• Range estimate is amazingly good (granted it’s summer but it’s much better than prior summers ). 4 stops on this trip and all within 2% or so of estimate despite hills, temp change , non-EPA speed.

Less so

• Rain affects it a LOT more - slows down to 70mph and refuses cruise setting for 75
• Refuses to engage FSD when it thinks fender camera is blocked (not sure how rain can block the camera - I wasn’t driving in mud or sleet ). Really annoying on road a long drive.
• Routing insists on being very conservative , routing me backwards to a supercharger I had skipped , despite its own range estimate showing I’d make it to my chosen supercharger. Note: this means it’s also trying to exit the highway by itself (repeatedly) to get “back on track”.
• Constant music interruption to tell me FSD is degraded because of rain or that cameras are “occluded”

All in all it seems like a mixed bag between regressions and improvements . I used to not have to think much about this drive but with “vision only” it feels less safe as it’ll disengage more easily when it thinks it can’t see well enough. Maybe the next release will drop before my return home

Return trip (Sunny , 25-30C):
Upside :
* very smooth on lane splits (used to be w quite the gamble)
* no issues engaging FSD as was the case in the rain

Needs work :
* FSD freaked out multiple times when between barrier and semi (rapid slowdown - enough to make me punch the accelerator not to get rearended)
* very hesitant when off highway . This was surprising given exits were rural stop to supercharge.

 

[WilliamG]

Return trip (Sunny , 25-30C):
Upside :
* very smooth on lane splits (used to be w quite the gamble)
* no issues engaging FSD as was the case in the rain

Needs work :
* FSD freaked out multiple times when between barrier and semi (rapid slowdown - enough to make me punch the accelerator not to get rearended)
* very hesitant when off highway . This was surprising given exits were rural stop to supercharge.

Tesla's response:

But, but... did you crash/die on your trip? No? Well there you go, - safer than the average human driver! SUCCESS!

 

[aronth5]

“Junk” turns into “JUNK” with 11.4.4. Just linked in Black Teslas first drive video. Many fails and wildly flailing yoke. Hard to watch. I won’t be installing this version of JUNK. I bet Whole Mars says it’s great - wait for it…. I will be waiting for 11.5….

I learned a long time to never judge a release after 1 drive. I have had builds that got much better and other builds that got worse over a couple of weeks.

 

[jebinc]

I learned a long time to never judge a release after 1 drive. I have had builds that got much better and other builds that got worse over a couple of weeks.

Not sure how that’s even possible, without a firmware update. Urban myth, yet proven. No “learning” happens internally to the car.

 

[PACEMD]

So you're saying FSDb 11.4.x is a dog?

Right now, I'm trying to decide how long to wait before installing 11.4.4/2023.7.20. I'll definitely be interested to see whether the short-deadline turn fixes will make my drive to work possible. Right now, I have a 100% disengagement rate, because it can't make the left turn shortly after the offramp, and without routing through parking lots, it would be a two-mile, ten-minute detour if I didn't manually intervene. We'll see what happens.

Pretty sure it was Timmy who fell down the well every week..........what the hell was the matter with that boy?

 

[fasteddie7]

Not sure how that’s even possible, without a firmware update. Urban myth, yet proven. No “learning” happens internally to the car.

I have two instances of this very thing happening on video. One was merging on highways where it suddenly stopped going to the end of the merge lane and turned its turn signal on and properly merged, the other was it started stopping after the stop line and then had to creep forward much less as opposed to stopping behind the stop line and having to creep up and stop again. Others have suggested per trip map data updates could cause this.

 

[Allx]

Does anyone know what 2023.12.11 is ? Seems newer than 11.4.x yet is labeled 11.3.6 …

 

[PACEMD]

I watched that movie as a young adult. I lost any urge to ever visit Turkey… and my lack of desire to visit Turkey has never waned. LOL.

I'm wid youse there, that movie totally squashed any plans I had for smuggling hashish across the Turkish border.........

 

[PACEMD]

Pretty sure it was Timmy who fell down the well every week..........what the hell was the matter with that boy?

What I'm saying is FSDb is like Timmy, a little idiot who keeps falling down the well............

 

[powertoold]

Oh nooo, it's comingggg

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671323961882288128

 

[thewishmaster]

Oh nooo, it's comingggg

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671323961882288128

Just wait for 11.420.69 to be the ultimate.final.final.final_v2 version of 11.4 I guess

 

[scottf200]

Still only see AP3.0 getting 11.4.4 on TeslaFI

 

[D Good]

Yeah well I am still on 11.4.2 and I can confirm that it is as bad as ever. Horrible, godawful driving, if you could even call it driving. I don’t think any release will fix the visibility problems that the b pillar has. Lane selection also seems tough to solve without good map data.

 

[fasteddie7]

Still only see AP3.0 getting 11.4.4 on TeslaFI

This feels similar to the last release, HW4 all seemed to get it two to three days after HW3

 

[jebinc]

Oh nooo, it's comingggg

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671323961882288128

As expected…

 

[WilliamG]

As expected…

He’s the shilliest of shills, it’s hilarious. Tesla could literally have renamed 11.4.3 to 11.4.4 and released it and Mars would say it’s 10x better than 11.4.3, and the greatest thing ever.