FSD Beta v11.x

The next big milestone for FSD is 11. It is a significant upgrade and fundamental changes to several parts of the FSD stack including totally new way to train the perception NN.

From AI day and Lex Fridman interview we have a good sense of what might be included.

- Object permanence both temporal and spatial
- Moving from “bag of points” to objects in NN
- Creating a 3D vector representation of the environment all in NN
- Planner optimization using NN / Monte Carlo Tree Search (MCTS)
- Change from processed images to “photon count” / raw image
- Change from single image perception to surround video
- Merging of city, highway and parking lot stacks a.k.a. Single Stack

Lex Fridman Interview of Elon. Starting with FSD related topics.

Here is a detailed explanation of Beta 11 in "layman's language" by James Douma, interview done after Lex Podcast.

Here is the AI Day explanation by in 4 parts.

Deep Understanding Tesla FSD Part 1: HydraNet

From Theory to Reality, Analyze the Evolution of Tesla Full Self-Driving

saneryee-studio.medium.com

Here is a useful blog post asking a few questions to Tesla about AI day. The useful part comes in comparison of Tesla's methods with Waymo and others (detailed papers linked).

Twelve Questions about Tesla Autopilot Technologies Exposed at 2021 AI Day

On Aug. 19 2021, Telsa held an AI day , exposing more technologies about Autopilot , from perception, planning, data labeling, simulation…

yuhuang-63908.medium.com

 

[Pdubs]

So this is an FSDwtf post.

My auto wipers were flawless, variable and downright good this morning. Didn’t drive in FSDwtf very long but not for the usual disengagements, it limitedbthe speed too much.

N fact, the auto wipers today was the first time I’ve never had to dial them back due to wtf aggressive behavior. It was truly ultra impressive.

 

[kpanda17]

Liked John’s analysis of v12

Perfectly articulated
V12 is going to be an amazing approach to automation
Very interesing Elon is connecting it to automation of Optimus as well

 

[old pilot]

Liked John’s analysis of v12

Perfectly articulated
V12 is going to be an amazing approach to automation
Very interesing Elon is connecting it to automation of Optimus as well

I'm skeptical, L4 or 5 within a year?

 

[Gwgan]

More than better wiper automation what I really need is automatic headlights whenever the wipers are in use. In hear that is a feature of later software versions but I’m stuck on 23.7.30 and all I got is this lousy 11.4.7

 

[JulienW]

I'm skeptical, L4 or 5 within a year?

Yea, while I'm more optimistic about the fundamental change V12 is implementing. And I predict some great progression will happen. Maybe even see a small glimmer of hope for L3 with no geofencing. However I still don't believe our cars will ever achieve L4.

 

[WilliamG]

Yea, while I'm more optimistic about the fundamental change V12 is implementing. And I predict some great progression will happen. Maybe even see a small glimmer of hope for L3 with no geofencing. However I still don't believe our cars will ever achieve L4.

0% chance our cars will achieve L4.

 

[legendsk]

A couple of comments -

Several updates ago there was one that greatly improved FSD. On a two lane road, the car would stay in the right lane instead of the center of the highway and frequently hug the left shoulder. The whole process was smoother and more human like.

Thereafter each update made it worse. It appeared that improvements to phantom braking were accomplished by reducing the visual depth of the cameras? Oncoming trucks appeared in the visualization at .5 to .75 miles, trash cans and cones appeared at 200-300 yards. Then with an update trucks appear at 100 yards trash cans appear at 10 feet sometimes and sometimes not at all. A big loss of camera function.

I did install 11.4.7, hoping at least some of the losses in the last few updates would be helped. Went for a drive: steering wheel nags continue every 15 seconds, it still takes is share out of the center of the highway, rather than the right lane, phantom braking continues - frequently comes to a complete dead stop centered in the lane when meeting a truck, the visual field is still reduced. By the time a trash can appears on the visual, it is gone from the windshield and you can see it out of the passenger window. It continues to stop 10 feet before the stop sign, sit there for 30 seconds or so, VERY slowly creep forward, turn the steering wheel back and forth 45º, with the explanation that it's creeping for better visibility, until it is moving out of the lane coming from the left and is about 1/3 of the way into the lane coming from the right, then suddenly will slam the steering wheel full left and accelerate at maximum, throwing gravel off the blacktop, (as though it were terrified of being in the intersection and wants out as fast as possible)? I'm used to it, but it seems to disturb the passengers and I have to pack groceries carefully in the trunk to prevent damage.

BTW on some exits off the Interstate it will pull into the exit lane and come to a full dead stop for 30 seconds like there was a stop sign, but of course there is not, then whip around the corner accelerating like it plans to continue across the oncoming lane, whether there is traffic or not. There is enough traffic that I haven't been able to allow it the opportunity to see if it will pull up at high speed and then slide until its' nose is touching the traffic lane, which could be its intent?

I have had the YLR for 15 months and FSDb kind of worked when I got it. Lots of problems, but interesting and showed potential. Most of the updates were 3 steps forward and 1 backward, (not bad for software updates on something this complicated). Then the update that was many steps forward and perhaps a couple backward. But for the last 6 months each update has made the system worse and now it is not nearly as good as it was 15 months ago.

My drive on 11.4.7 (2023.7.30), was only 10 miles or so, but it was enough to establish there wasn't any significant improvement from 2023.7.20 for me. YMMV
There has been no map update, I'm still on NA -14515.

I'm adjusting to the lack of communication with Tesla and becoming self managed. The car is so blamed good, the total lack of service or ability to talk to any Tesla employee about anything is not so scary. I'll just drive it until it dies and if I can't fix it, leave it by the side of the road. I fully expect it to outlast me.

 

[Pdubs]

More than better wiper automation what I really need is automatic headlights whenever the wipers are in use. In hear that is a feature of later software versions but I’m stuck on 23.7.30 and all I got is this lousy 11.4.7

Wife's 3, non FSD on 2023.26.7 has that feature. Here's to the future!

 

[aset]

HW4 probably will have a short life. HW5 is coming.

Looking at my leaking Samsung washing machine and fridge, I hope HW5 will be short lived

 

[kpanda17]

A couple of comments -

Several updates ago there was one that greatly improved FSD. On a two lane road, the car would stay in the right lane instead of the center of the highway and frequently hug the left shoulder. The whole process was smoother and more human like.

Thereafter each update made it worse. It appeared that improvements to phantom braking were accomplished by reducing the visual depth of the cameras? Oncoming trucks appeared in the visualization at .5 to .75 miles, trash cans and cones appeared at 200-300 yards. Then with an update trucks appear at 100 yards trash cans appear at 10 feet sometimes and sometimes not at all. A big loss of camera function.

I did install 11.4.7, hoping at least some of the losses in the last few updates would be helped. Went for a drive: steering wheel nags continue every 15 seconds, it still takes is share out of the center of the highway, rather than the right lane, phantom braking continues - frequently comes to a complete dead stop centered in the lane when meeting a truck, the visual field is still reduced. By the time a trash can appears on the visual, it is gone from the windshield and you can see it out of the passenger window. It continues to stop 10 feet before the stop sign, sit there for 30 seconds or so, VERY slowly creep forward, turn the steering wheel back and forth 45º, with the explanation that it's creeping for better visibility, until it is moving out of the lane coming from the left and is about 1/3 of the way into the lane coming from the right, then suddenly will slam the steering wheel full left and accelerate at maximum, throwing gravel off the blacktop, (as though it were terrified of being in the intersection and wants out as fast as possible)? I'm used to it, but it seems to disturb the passengers and I have to pack groceries carefully in the trunk to prevent damage.

BTW on some exits off the Interstate it will pull into the exit lane and come to a full dead stop for 30 seconds like there was a stop sign, but of course there is not, then whip around the corner accelerating like it plans to continue across the oncoming lane, whether there is traffic or not. There is enough traffic that I haven't been able to allow it the opportunity to see if it will pull up at high speed and then slide until its' nose is touching the traffic lane, which could be its intent?

I have had the YLR for 15 months and FSDb kind of worked when I got it. Lots of problems, but interesting and showed potential. Most of the updates were 3 steps forward and 1 backward, (not bad for software updates on something this complicated). Then the update that was many steps forward and perhaps a couple backward. But for the last 6 months each update has made the system worse and now it is not nearly as good as it was 15 months ago.

My drive on 11.4.7 (2023.7.30), was only 10 miles or so, but it was enough to establish there wasn't any significant improvement from 2023.7.20 for me. YMMV
There has been no map update, I'm still on NA -14515.

I'm adjusting to the lack of communication with Tesla and becoming self managed. The car is so blamed good, the total lack of service or ability to talk to any Tesla employee about anything is not so scary. I'll just drive it until it dies and if I can't fix it, leave it by the side of the road. I fully expect it to outlast me.

I’ve coached a lot on this subject in n this forum, get to know your local service center and five key people:
Location general manager responsible for everything, this will be the person you email for thanks and exec escalations (if nec, not been the case for me)
Service Advisor (find the best one)
Delivery/sales persons (help if necessary during buys and trades, 3x as high turnover in sales, 2x at the location 1x virtual)

I know these names right now
This ensures Tesla pays attention to you when needed

I brag about Tesla, these people have been key to that experience
Btw, after securing Tesla number two, I delivered a four foot holiday hero for them for lunch

Good luck

 

[rlsd]

Looking at my leaking Samsung washing machine and fridge, I hope HW5 will be short lived

Agreed. My Samsung fridge ice maker broke after a year. Samsung TV keyboard input is lame. My 11 year old LG TV and 8 year old LG washer/dryer are still working great. But my Samsung S22+ is great.

 

[rlsd]

On my first 120 mile drive on 11.4.7, the wipers made an inappropriate single swipe about five times during the trip.

11.4.7 turned my wipers on when I parked along the beach to watch Netflix last night. I had to manually turn it off.

 

[Joboo7777]

Not excusing the behavior but IME the presence of other cars actually makes FSD behave differently and brake sooner.

I've posted this before but there are some temporary stop signs on my route to work that FSD doesn't deal well with. If it's following another car it will brake appropriately, probably because it's simply braking for the car instead of the stop sign. If there's no car it barrels towards the intersection then realizes there's a stop sign and slams on the brakes incredibly late.

I went the same route after getting 11.4.7 and the car still goes through the stop sign. This stop sign has been in place for over 20 years. Both times it happened there were no cars at the intersection. With 11.4.7 I allowed it to go through without intervention to see if it would eventually brake hard and stop but it never did. Before everyone lights me up for going through it I was very attentive making sure no cars or Pedestrians were around. It’s in a development with very little traffic mid day.

I sent a report to Tesla.

 

[sleepydoc]

Agreed. My Samsung fridge ice maker broke after a year. Samsung TV keyboard input is lame. My 11 year old LG TV and 8 year old LG washer/dryer are still working great. But my Samsung S22+ is great.

The Samsung semiconductor division is separate from the appliance division. Tesla is apparently using Samsung to fabricate the chips so refrigerator reliability is irrelevant.

 

[Sharps97]

Samsungs semiconductor division isn’t known for high yielding high performing nodes as of late. But they have offered really good pricing if you are willing to give up best in class performance at any given node.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Samsungs semiconductor division isn’t known for high yielding high performing nodes as of late. But they have offered really good pricing if you are willing to give up best in class performance at any given node.

Sounds like a Tesla move.

 

[Cal1]

A couple of comments

I'm adjusting to the lack of communication with Tesla and becoming self managed. The car is so blamed good, the total lack of service or ability to talk to any Tesla employee about anything is not so scary. I'll just drive it until it dies and if I can't fix it, leave it by the side of the road. I fully expect it to outlast me.

Naw won’t be possible. This update adds “Follow my owner home” which will make it impossible to abandon.

Unless it’s raining! Then it will probably just drive around in circles looking for you.

 

[Dewg]

0% chance our cars will achieve L4.

Agreed - but all I ever wanted was a reliable L2. If I can get behind the wheel and put in an address and have the car drive me there while I'm paying attention, I'm happy. I never drank the coolaid on hiring out my car as a robotaxi - hell I didn't even know that was a thing until I read it here, since I'm not on Twitter and don't follow Elon.

 

[WilliamG]

Agreed - but all I ever wanted was a reliable L2. If I can get behind the wheel and put in an address and have the car drive me there while I'm paying attention, I'm happy. I never drank the coolaid on hiring out my car as a robotaxi - hell I didn't even know that was a thing until I read it here, since I'm not on Twitter and don't follow Elon.

You won’t be able to do that, either. Well, not without making your passengers very uncomfortable.

 

[JohnB007]

I did another 40-ish km drive.

Mostly, it is very similar to the previous version. I've already gotten used to the subtly different feel. Same bad lane planning logic.

At one of the the left turns, there was an oncoming car, and decided to turn and oh man did it turn. I don't think it needed to press accelerator that much, as it wasn't close. Not sure if the previous version would have done the same.

About the nag - there is a huge difference in my case. Even on city roads, I am able to go about 80-90 secs between nags. This used to be the case only on highways. Now I can do this on city streets too. I do tend to adjust max speeds and switch music at times, so in some drives, I get no nag for quite a long time.