And, to be clear, there is a difference between "Pay Attention" and "Apply slight torque to the wheel" messages and a red-hands on wheel warning with an audio alert. When the car is in a place where it's unsure, like you pointed out in heavy construction, you may get a red-hands on wheel alert, even if you're holding the wheel and paying attention. This is just because the system doesn't fully trust itself and really needs you to be paying attention to take over. Again, this is normal.
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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
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- Tags
- #fixphantombraking 12.4.x is coming autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass elon rocks fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd doesn't read signs properly fsd hard and late braking fsd has decision wobble fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd sometimes may not detect train crossings fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd stops when there is zero visibility fsd tailgating in city streets fsd very slow at stops fsd will never enable l3 with hw4
zoomer0056
Active Member
Well then, @Electroman earned the time out with 5 strikes. Jeeze oh peetos! Those must've been some fine lookin' distractions!
Edit: I can see how distractions from such alluring distractions could be so annoying.
LOL - true dat. Or, there is something wrong with his car.
I'm talking about the nags in general. Cell phone usage can get an instant pay attention just like construction. I believe people at red-lights say they get the torque alert when the lead car and they are looking at their phone.
IMO, unless your car is broken, it's really easy to not get strikes. I've had maybe 1 with 3 cars since Oct 2021.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
It's definitely not fixed. It's improved, but I definitely would not describe it as the majority of it being fixed. It makes using the repeater cameras for assessing traffic conditions much less useful at night (of course still useful as long as you happen to be glancing at a time when there is not a blink).
People stopped complaining about it because they accepted it or they just got new cars - affected cars are presumably in a minority now. It's bad enough in my car I occasionally think about fixing it myself - it doesn't seem very difficult, but I'd have to make the time, and not screw it up.
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I think it IS better than what 3-4 years ago when we started FSDb testing, but it’s still 70% of the image and the other 30% is partially obscured. Maybe I just have older cameras that can’t be fixed via software.
I remember this when they added the repeater camera view to the main screen when you signaled. Then I read about the light bleed issue, and just disabled the camera view when signals are engaged. Now I don't worry about it bothering me.
I just use my side mirrors like I have for, oh I don't know, decades?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
The repeater cameras are theoretically excellent for eliminating the blind spot if you get in the habit of using of them. Unfortunately they are laggy, poor quality (resolution and clarity), and have the light bleed issue at night.I remember this when they added the repeater camera view to the main screen when you signaled. Then I read about the light bleed issue, and just disabled the camera view when signals are engaged. Now I don't worry about it bothering me.
I've tried to get used to using them as a supplemental method of checking the blind spot but don't find that I can situate the view far enough to the right, and since I can't use them at night, getting in the habit is difficult. If I really try to use them, particularly on the freeway, I find that they provide me a much better idea of what is going on than using my mirror, with the various severe limitations mentioned.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Properly adjusted mirrors are also excellent for eliminating the blind spot. Most people have their mirrors turned too far in so they double cover behind the car and miss the blind spot. I have my mirrors adjusted so they pick up where the rear view mirror leaves off. As the car leaves the field of view of my left side mirror it enters my peripheral vision.
The big problem with the camera approach is it is arguably worse for merging to the left, where the blind spot is the biggest issue. In order to use the camera you're forced to look away from where you are merging and away from the mirror. There's a reason no one else uses this approach. (Honda used to but dropped it a few years ago.)
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yes, this is well known. I learned it in driver’s ed (which I did not officially ever take).
If it actually worked this would result in issues when changing to other cars (and it is possible to do both quickly if the camera actually were fast), but otherwise if it works there’s not really a reason to use the mirror. But agreed that the position is not optimal.
FSD attempted a very bad lane change - into an occupied lane. The other car swerved, and I intervened, so no crash. Barely.
Entering the MacArthur Maze in Oakland, coming onto I80 E from Jackson St. Routing is to the next exit onto hwy 24, which is very close, so we should stay in the lane we entered on. But FSD blinked and immediately started a lane change to the left. But there was a car right there. He swerved, I yanked back into our lane, no damage done.
Here we are, in the proper lane, but FSD is already crossing into the lane to our left. Yes, the left repeater cam show the car we are about to crash into.
Here is that left side repeater cam view, and you can see that we are already over the lane line, and that the other car has already started to swerve to avoid us. This is about the time I disengaged by steering back into our land.
This is the worst, and clearly unsafe move I have seen from FSD. Yet.
Both the other driver and I acted to prevent a collision. But it underscores that FSD is fully capable of bad and dangerous mistakes.
My guess is that the car was switching from V12 to V11 Highway Code. But it was a very bad screwup. I think someone else reported a similar very improper lane change a few days ago. And, yes, I made a verbal report and snagged trigged the dash cam so I could share these photos.
By the way, this is why I use the Minimal Lane Changes setting, unless I forget to set it at the start of every drive. In the default mode, FSD makes lane changes unexpectedly, so it is not possible to anticipate and check for clearance in advance. This setting should persist between drives.
Entering the MacArthur Maze in Oakland, coming onto I80 E from Jackson St. Routing is to the next exit onto hwy 24, which is very close, so we should stay in the lane we entered on. But FSD blinked and immediately started a lane change to the left. But there was a car right there. He swerved, I yanked back into our lane, no damage done.
Here we are, in the proper lane, but FSD is already crossing into the lane to our left. Yes, the left repeater cam show the car we are about to crash into.
Here is that left side repeater cam view, and you can see that we are already over the lane line, and that the other car has already started to swerve to avoid us. This is about the time I disengaged by steering back into our land.
This is the worst, and clearly unsafe move I have seen from FSD. Yet.
Both the other driver and I acted to prevent a collision. But it underscores that FSD is fully capable of bad and dangerous mistakes.
My guess is that the car was switching from V12 to V11 Highway Code. But it was a very bad screwup. I think someone else reported a similar very improper lane change a few days ago. And, yes, I made a verbal report and snagged trigged the dash cam so I could share these photos.
By the way, this is why I use the Minimal Lane Changes setting, unless I forget to set it at the start of every drive. In the default mode, FSD makes lane changes unexpectedly, so it is not possible to anticipate and check for clearance in advance. This setting should persist between drives.
That road has so many potholes of late. Are you having trouble with them while on FSD?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
L3 any day now. Just need 12.5 or 12.6 to address these known bugs. 
I just disengage or go in the middle lane with minimal lane changes (middle lane happens to be best). I know where they all are and most are filled in now.
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sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Pothole avoidance should be released in 2 weeks.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I've had a couple similar incidents with V12. It's strange because prior to this merging on the highway (and in general) has been quite good. Both my incidents were also on the highway which supposedly still uses the V11 stack.
not sure if main pothole will ever be avoidable...Pothole avoidance should be released in 2 weeks.
gottagofast
2022 Model 3 Performance
We might not need anymore updates after this
Were your incidents also near the time it would have been switching between the two highway code versions?I've had a couple similar incidents with V12. It's strange because prior to this merging on the highway (and in general) has been quite good. Both my incidents were also on the highway which supposedly still uses the V11 stack.
I'm not sure, but I think it was at this same location a couple weeks ago that FSD just died. I don't recall the exact message and alarms, but I think it beeb-beeb-beeped and said Take Over Immediately. FSD just let go of the steering and speed.
Speculation here, but perhaps the handoff between V12 and V11 has some serious problems, like crashing the software or trying to crash the car.
After that time FSD quit, it took a minute or so before it became available again. Maybe it was rebooting itself, who knows.
I've had something similar happen twice on the freeway. In both cases FSD and the other cars were turning into the same open lane and I disengaged. I could see it happening as the other cars had their turn signals on. Somehow FSD didn't sense it, but even if it did, it happens so fast FSD wouldn't respond in time.
It'll be interesting to see how well v12.5 handles these scenarios.
FSDtester#1
Large Member
I told everyone the hack weeks ago for the switch over, step on the accelerator coming onto or off highway, coming on it immediately switches to V11,
Coming off to V12
