DanCar
Active Member
Is it better or worse than V11?
Just trolling. The real answer is it doesn't matter. Both have years of work to perfect.
Just trolling. The real answer is it doesn't matter. Both have years of work to perfect.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
-
- Tags
- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd doesn't read signs properly fsd hard and late braking fsd has decision wobble fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd sometimes may not detect train crossings fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
jebinc
Well-Known Member
As is ALWAYS the case... Highly variable, not reliable or predictable - just "different". Sadly, this has been the case from day #1...
Got working auto wipers? Nope. How long that Tesla classified Auto wipers as "Beta"?
A. FOREVER.
If
Also the creeps are more like "jumps" and aggressive and fast.
The first right sure rolls like a human (if it was v12).
Also the creeps are more like "jumps" and aggressive and fast.
OxBrew
Active Member
This is a disqualifying move. Keep the testing in house with paid professional drivers.
I don't want some casual owner to be checking their mirror and then this happens, crashing head on into my kids.
I'm done with Tesla and this smoke and mirrors charade. Turn it all off before more people get killed.
Seriously, people, we've lost all context here. FSD is patently unsafe.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
For that specific example, it looks like you have plenty of room to turn in at the dotted line?
For this example it looks like you can straddle the double yellow without fully crossing.
For double parked, I guess you wouldn't have much choice but to cross unless there was someone in the car, but you run the risk of getting a ticket and getting hit by oncoming traffic (then you would be at fault).
I encourage you to flag down a police officer (I usually find them at local gas stations) and ask them your questions. You can also call your local police station and ask for a traffic officer, then ask your questions.
Dan responded on this topic that the likely correct move would be to avoid the turn, if it's full, and take the next turn. As for the parked cars, I'd say you have to drive quite close to those cars to avoid crossing the double-yellow. Again, ask a local officer for the correct and legal maneuver.
Was able to drive v12 for first time in LA area yesterday.
Good
1. Smoother
2. More human like
3. On Autospeed it remains way under normal speed limits. Not a problem when I manually increase the speed limit. It then remained at the higher speed I set. Nice.
4. Glad I updated
Bad
1. Changed its mind at very last minute to take an exit off Hwy 101 and turned at last instant while on exit ramp to get back on hwy. Was startling.
2. Did not follow map as expected which was to go straight on a wide city street with 2 straight lanes and 3 left turn lanes. It inappropriately and suddenly got into the middle left turn lane even though I and the map did not want it to go there.
3. Turns blinkers on way too early before turns.
4. And of course last but not least (not Tesla fault) the too long stop at stop signs.
It's worth it, but, as expected, still needs tweaks.
Good
1. Smoother
2. More human like
3. On Autospeed it remains way under normal speed limits. Not a problem when I manually increase the speed limit. It then remained at the higher speed I set. Nice.
4. Glad I updated
Bad
1. Changed its mind at very last minute to take an exit off Hwy 101 and turned at last instant while on exit ramp to get back on hwy. Was startling.
2. Did not follow map as expected which was to go straight on a wide city street with 2 straight lanes and 3 left turn lanes. It inappropriately and suddenly got into the middle left turn lane even though I and the map did not want it to go there.
3. Turns blinkers on way too early before turns.
4. And of course last but not least (not Tesla fault) the too long stop at stop signs.
It's worth it, but, as expected, still needs tweaks.
DanCar
Active Member
What do you think of the argument that partial self driving (PSD) saves lives? In other words the statistics show you are safer using PSD than not? PSD has data to prove it is safer than not using.
1. Does v12 have MLC (Minimize Lane Changes)? Either in the menu, or I use the left scroll wheel to the left or right to change profiles (Chill, Average, Assertive), and I enable MLC
2. Planning is still an issue, and has been an issue since they moved from C++ to a NN. Not sure how/when this will improve.
3. I'm really interested in this - is this just a "you can't please everyone" issue? I say that because people have been screaming that the blinkers don't come on soon enough in V11 and previous (which is set to 100 feet). Now it's coming on sooner, and I'm hearing people complain that it's coming on too soon.
4. Again, this may be a "you can't please everyone" issue. Some people don't mind being stopped for 1 or 2 seconds, and some find that an eternity and make claims that it's a safety problem, etc.
PianoAl
Active Member
Interesting regression. A few versions ago, the car would turn right coming out of my driveway. Although that was the correct direction of the destination, compass-wise, it was wrong because the street dead-ends. This was solved a while ago, but now with V12, it once again goes the wrong way. I allowed it to proceed, and it got to the end of the street and said that it was unable to proceed.
I would have expected this to be related to map data and unrelated to FSD, but apparently not.
I would have expected this to be related to map data and unrelated to FSD, but apparently not.
Last edited:
Was it like the example I shared where it turned on the blinker and even tried getting into the wrong turn pocket? Or is the concern that say a right turn blinker is on approaching an intersection but there's say a parking lot with people potentially confused by your early turn signal?
zoomer0056
Active Member
Is PSD something new? I have not heard of this.
The types of problems 12.x fixes or even regresses have indeed been around for a long time. Some things like incorrectly/unsafely passing stopped traffic was especially bad in some 10.x versions that were improved with later versions. I'm not sure if people experienced this particular issue in 11.x where explicit control logic might have prevented this behavior but then required a disengagement to go around actually parked vehicles?
With end-to-end, if Tesla is really avoiding explicit control heuristics, this then seems to be a question of how variable/reliable/predictable 12.x should be? This uncertainty applies to all driving scenarios, so do you think 12.x needs to be consistent enough in at least some subset before wider release?
Seems like multiple aspects that it failed to consider although at the moment of turning on the signal to change lanes, the more central camera view probably couldn't see either the black oncoming vehicle (occluded by the lead truck) or the silver vehicle behind it (occluded by the hill):
As you suggested, the visible road and hill should have been enough signal to not attempt an aggressive pass on a blind curve. Additionally, just a couple seconds earlier it had a clear view of the long line of vehicles in front of the truck, so there wouldn't be space to pass ahead anyway. Unclear if current traffic data for showing the red navigation route is an input to FSD, but that could have also been a signal that this is probably not the time to attempt passing.
Seems like shadow mode data collection fix might be relatively straightforward of detecting when 12.x would have switched lanes and 11.x perceives oncoming vehicle within a few seconds. This should at least catch the cases of what would have been a dangerous pass. Although trickier is just because a human didn't pass when it's actually clear isn't necessarily a signal for end-to-end to learn.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I think V12 was way too aggressive in this turn. It got way too close to that car as it turned. If the other car had suddenly slowed down or moved differently, it would have been a collision. There needs to a buffer zone in your prediction in case the other vehicle does something unexpected.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Looks pretty good! That shooting into traffic lanes with oncoming traffic is pretty bold! We’ll see if it results in any honking or evasive maneuvers!
Light traffic though.
Review the rules and stipulations - we are getting close to
time.
DanCar
Active Member
Partial self driving (PSD) is a better description than the false: full self driving.
