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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
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- Tags
- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd hard and late braking fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
gottagofast
2022 Model 3 Performance
3 people in here just said they got it, thats big compared to 12.2 where no one here said they got it
Your post in wrong on a couple of points. First "to place all responsibility" is not accurate. Tesla has FSD QA drivers doing validation along with Tesla employees before the public gets the release. On several occassions the result of Tesla employee testing has resulted in update point releases. Second, Tesla clearly informs FSD owners they are part of testing and responsible for FSD. If they are uncomfortable doing this they can opt out of the program.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Claimed recent subscription. This eliminates v12 as possibility. (Since they’d be up to date on software, etc. , etc.)
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
OP said they had just subscribed within the last two days. And from their description of the accident, they basically drove their car into on-coming traffic, turned on FSD Beta, and expected it to save them:
And here's their dash cam. You can't even tell at what point he activated it. Looks like he might have activated it while the car was rolling:
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yes. V12 cannot come soon enough. It will save us from these edge cases.
Today I went back to the place where v12.3 took the wrong right turn lane last night. It still failed.
Also v12.3 did not change lane to make left turn in 0.7 mile ahead on a 3 lane street. It kept the right most lane going to the freeway.
Not sure v12.2.1 had those bad things.
More training needed.
Also v12.3 did not change lane to make left turn in 0.7 mile ahead on a 3 lane street. It kept the right most lane going to the freeway.
Not sure v12.2.1 had those bad things.
More training needed.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
Do you have 50k plus miles using the driver assist system, aka fsdb?
I do, and many others here do also. Anyone using a test system in beta release is 100% responsible at all times. Full stop. Your grievances belong in another thread.
This thread is for people sharing their experiences with the driver assist software.
Not their take on how awful and misleading Tesla is.
The Dan O'Dowd thread is not this one.
I got another drive in: set to assertive and I enabled "autospeed"
I've read about the excitement for many pages and got to experience it last night and today's drive continues the optimism.
The short version, is it perfect, no. Is it significantly better than V11. Heck yeah!
In my very limited driving so far, I haven't really noted any regressions. The only interventions were accelerator presses. The only disengagements were at arrival at destination.
I'm not setup for video and these notes are all from memory. I'm sharing the knowing the everyone is eager for V12 data and not everyone wants it has it yet.
The first leg of the trip was to a Tesla service center.
Finding the limit line at a stop sign where there a "keep clear" region right before it was still a "meh". Better than V11 but not where humans stop.
Autospeed feels more human like, but even at assertive, my experience is that it is still on the cautious side. I wish I could see what its internal "max speed" and "target speed" where.
Lane selection so far is better. It doesn't aggressively dive into a new lane. Lane stance seems better.
Turn signal usage was near perfect.
I disengaged at end to pull in the Tesla service driveway.
The return trip will include freeway driving.
I engaged FSD on driveway out of Tesla service center. Entry into the road was pretty much what I would have done. I could see a single car (ironically a Tesla) and there was an opportunity to "gun it" and pull out in front of it or quickly move to another lane. The car didn't and neither would I in this situation because I could also see there was clear traffic behind it, so it was better to just wait.
As the drive continued a car wanted to turn left. The traffic ahead was stopped at light. FSDb, yielded and left room for the other car to make its turn and then closed up the space. Just like what I would have done.
At an intersection, there was enough traffic that it hesitated to enter the intersection, just like I would have done, because it wasn't obvious initially that there would be room on the other side. This was only a brief hesitation, again similar to what I would have done, then it proceeded.
The merge onto the freeway some uneventful, the only thing I observed is that for the "max speed" instead of showing "auto" it actually showed a number. I think, there is some V12 running here because the Max speeds shown were higher than the speed limit (i.e. 75 mph vs 65 for the posted speed limit). So, this makes believe that some part of V12 is running for freeway driving.
On the ramp switching between freeways, it slowed too much for a metering light that was off. This was similar to V11 behavior.
Near my house there is a greater than 90 degrees that V11 could execute but I always rated it "poorly done". V12 confidently waited for the traffic, no unnecessary wheel jerks and smoothly did the turn.
As I noted in last night's drive, V11 would then violently jerk wheel after turning in cul-de-sac and V12 is so far 2 for 2 in not doing that.
Today, in the daylight, I wanted to have it do same pull over into the next available curb past my house. This is the end of the cul-de-sac, so the curbs are not straight. The only "failure" happened here. It drove into the curb. I suspected it might, given the trajectory it was on, it was going slowly enough, and the curb was low enough that I was willing to risk driving into the curb to find out if it was going to correct itself.
Overall impression is still really good. During the actual drive there were no "whoa" moments.
I've read about the excitement for many pages and got to experience it last night and today's drive continues the optimism.
The short version, is it perfect, no. Is it significantly better than V11. Heck yeah!
In my very limited driving so far, I haven't really noted any regressions. The only interventions were accelerator presses. The only disengagements were at arrival at destination.
I'm not setup for video and these notes are all from memory. I'm sharing the knowing the everyone is eager for V12 data and not everyone wants it has it yet.
The first leg of the trip was to a Tesla service center.
Finding the limit line at a stop sign where there a "keep clear" region right before it was still a "meh". Better than V11 but not where humans stop.
Autospeed feels more human like, but even at assertive, my experience is that it is still on the cautious side. I wish I could see what its internal "max speed" and "target speed" where.
Lane selection so far is better. It doesn't aggressively dive into a new lane. Lane stance seems better.
Turn signal usage was near perfect.
I disengaged at end to pull in the Tesla service driveway.
The return trip will include freeway driving.
I engaged FSD on driveway out of Tesla service center. Entry into the road was pretty much what I would have done. I could see a single car (ironically a Tesla) and there was an opportunity to "gun it" and pull out in front of it or quickly move to another lane. The car didn't and neither would I in this situation because I could also see there was clear traffic behind it, so it was better to just wait.
As the drive continued a car wanted to turn left. The traffic ahead was stopped at light. FSDb, yielded and left room for the other car to make its turn and then closed up the space. Just like what I would have done.
At an intersection, there was enough traffic that it hesitated to enter the intersection, just like I would have done, because it wasn't obvious initially that there would be room on the other side. This was only a brief hesitation, again similar to what I would have done, then it proceeded.
The merge onto the freeway some uneventful, the only thing I observed is that for the "max speed" instead of showing "auto" it actually showed a number. I think, there is some V12 running here because the Max speeds shown were higher than the speed limit (i.e. 75 mph vs 65 for the posted speed limit). So, this makes believe that some part of V12 is running for freeway driving.
On the ramp switching between freeways, it slowed too much for a metering light that was off. This was similar to V11 behavior.
Near my house there is a greater than 90 degrees that V11 could execute but I always rated it "poorly done". V12 confidently waited for the traffic, no unnecessary wheel jerks and smoothly did the turn.
As I noted in last night's drive, V11 would then violently jerk wheel after turning in cul-de-sac and V12 is so far 2 for 2 in not doing that.
Today, in the daylight, I wanted to have it do same pull over into the next available curb past my house. This is the end of the cul-de-sac, so the curbs are not straight. The only "failure" happened here. It drove into the curb. I suspected it might, given the trajectory it was on, it was going slowly enough, and the curb was low enough that I was willing to risk driving into the curb to find out if it was going to correct itself.
Overall impression is still really good. During the actual drive there were no "whoa" moments.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I just want to know if it wanders around in lanes just like a human, maintaining buffer zones, and stays out of blind spots when possible, but only one person has responded and it was indeterminate. I don’t have patience to watch hours of videos which presumably demonstrate this. Does it even shift for trucks anymore? (None of the above on freeway of course.)
It’s as though no one cares about the stuff that is required to make driving comfortable and safe.
It would be extremely mysterious if it did not exhibit these natural human behaviors, though. (Would indicate that Tesla is continuously post-processing the NN output somehow, I guess?)
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j0shm1lls
Member
This is not for V12 but we were talking about similar issues for not receiving V12 quickly:
2023.44.20 seems to have a regression in HOV lanes. I'm not sure this really pertains to FSD 12 because this version may still be running V11 stack.
We drove 1,200 miles in Calif this week end and encountered HOV lanes on CA 210 in the LA area. These were marked with double white lines which changed briefly to dashed single white lines a bit before an exit. FSD V12 even with minimal lane changes and HOV enabled in the Nav menu would always signal and exit the HOV lane. Each time, I had to quickly cancel the lane change with opposite blinker, but the blinking and a bit of swerving happened each time, no doubt driving crazy the car behind us.
I call this a regression because similar behavior was reported as having been fixed a few versions ago in a different thread: FSD: how to keep car in carpool lane?.
We just got notice that 12.3 is available to us, but I'm not going to drive another 1,200 miles to check this, so perhaps a So Cal member can check it out.
We drove 1,200 miles in Calif this week end and encountered HOV lanes on CA 210 in the LA area. These were marked with double white lines which changed briefly to dashed single white lines a bit before an exit. FSD V12 even with minimal lane changes and HOV enabled in the Nav menu would always signal and exit the HOV lane. Each time, I had to quickly cancel the lane change with opposite blinker, but the blinking and a bit of swerving happened each time, no doubt driving crazy the car behind us.
I call this a regression because similar behavior was reported as having been fixed a few versions ago in a different thread: FSD: how to keep car in carpool lane?.
We just got notice that 12.3 is available to us, but I'm not going to drive another 1,200 miles to check this, so perhaps a So Cal member can check it out.
Probably some type of Navigation error. Did you notice the "Changing Lanes to Follow Route" message on the screen? I've had mine do this before on 11.4.9.
My limited drives with it, no it does not stay out of blind spots, but it doesn't go out of it's way to get into them either. It does move around in the lane which I'm still getting used to. When there is no traffic around me, it stays centered as normal. But as it passes a car, it moves a little away from them in the lane.I just want to know if it wanders around in lanes just like a human, maintaining buffer zones, and stays out of blind spots when possible, but only one person has responded and it was indeterminate. I don’t have patience to watch hours of videos which presumably demonstrate this. Does it even shift for trucks anymore? (None of the above on freeway of course.)
It’s as though no one cares about the stuff that is required to make driving comfortable and safe.
It would be extremely mysterious if it did not exhibit these natural human behaviors, though. (Would indicate that Tesla is continuously post-processing the NN output somehow, I guess?)
Only a few of us got 12.2.1, and some of us did say so. So far, 12.3 has gone to 12.2.1 cars and a similar number of others as well so far. We all hope v12 goes out widely soon.
I just installed 12.3 but haven't had a chance to test it yet. As I reported earlier, V12.2.1 had some improvements in my trouble spots, but some remained problematic. I don't really expect improvements in those particular issues, but we'll see...
I am a bit disappointed that V12 is still on the 2023.44 base code, while several 2024 updates have been released with FSD 11.4.9. This suggest that there is still a split between us old V11 beta testers and the general FSD population. 11.4.9 is fully merged with the production versions, but these small V12 releases so far, are not merged with production. This may be wise till V12 is better proven to be at least as good as 11.4.9, or it would cause disappointment and possible troubles.
I'm curious about this too. Outside of last night's brief drive, I don't drive just to test FSDb. I consider myself a reasonably defensive driver and notice V11s poor lane positioning.I just want to know if it wanders around in lanes just like a human, maintaining buffer zones, and stays out of blind spots when possible, but only one person has responded and it was indeterminate. I don’t have patience to watch hours of videos which presumably demonstrate this. Does it even shift for trucks anymore? (None of the above on freeway of course.)
It’s as though no one cares about the stuff that is required to make driving comfortable and safe.
It would be extremely mysterious if it did not exhibit these natural human behaviors, though. (Would indicate that Tesla is continuously post-processing the NN output somehow, I guess?)
Your question did remind me that a few times I looked at the car positioning as indicated on the screen and it *seemed* to be more "human like". That is, it was slightly shifted away from the centerline when there was a room on the right. Put another way, it wasn't perfectly centered. I don't have enough data to be sure about this.
It also seems to react (anticipate) vehicles turning off the lane of travel that are in front of it. V11 would overreact, V12 allows the buffer to close (just like I would) when the car in front is slowing down but is apparently turning away. As human, I reduce my safety margin there because in the vast majority of cases that car will be clear of the road. In trade, I run the risk of a higher jerk brake if the car doesn't clear the lane fast enough. It *seemed* that V12 behave closer to the way I drive.
Today's drives were in the middle of the day with relatively light traffic. I will say I didn't notice blind spot camping (and trust me I notice this in V11), but I wasn't looking for it specifically today and there weren't a lot of opportunities for it.
Another clue of better "lane pose" is when turning right. I was right behind another car (Model S, this is Silcon Valley after all) trying to turn right. V12 positioned itself similarly to how I would have. In the past V11 would be awkward here. Based on what others have posted I suspect V12 would have tried to squeeze in. Clearly, the Model S in front me was not running V12 beta.
Another spacing indicator, when turning left out of our cul-de-sac, it stops at the "standard" limit line position and then it does a smooth single creep forward to confirm that it is clear and the goes. Much as I would normally do.
I will echo what others have said, it "feels" different. Fingers crossed.
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